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Recruiting - 2018 class


NextYearBill

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26 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Private schools have an academic advantage which applies to players that are not aiming to be one and dones and have little prospect of being drafted by the NBA after one year. Kids like the ones I am describing have to think about the level and quality of education they will be getting, and generally the private schools have an advantage in this regard. This does not mean that public schools do not provide an excellent education, they do but they may limit the excellent education to students in special honors groups and the athletes are NOT generally included in these groups. 

The kids that are potential one and done in college actually seem to go to private schools here in Missouri.

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8 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-public schools recruit, too

Yep.  

 

Webster takes this heat often.  Unfortunately more than any other Public school in the county. 

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1 hour ago, Old guy said:

Private schools have an academic advantage which applies to players that are not aiming to be one and dones and have little prospect of being drafted by the NBA after one year. Kids like the ones I am describing have to think about the level and quality of education they will be getting, and generally the private schools have an advantage in this regard. This does not mean that public schools do not provide an excellent education, they do but they may limit the excellent education to students in special honors groups and the athletes are NOT generally included in these groups. 

Some of the best schools in Missouri are public so you can not make a blanket statement like you did.  In fact, the better public schools actually offer a more rigorous option for their students then you get in most private schools.  Private schools tend to offer a more one size fits all - not wrong but public schools have many more audiences to serve so you can actually get access to many more academic high level options.  People choose to go to private schools for lots a of reasons - valid or not - but if they do so because they believe they can not get a rigorous education at a public school then they are misinformed.

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1 hour ago, brianstl said:

It wasn't designed to hurt the big private schools.  It was designed to hurt schools like Ritter, MICDS, Lutheran North, Bishop LeBlond, Valle, Bishop Morgan, Helias, Borgia, etc.  It was done to hurt the private schools that compete in the classes that public rural high schools compete in.  This was all about making rural MO happy.  

You make a valid point.

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Just now, cheeseman said:

You make a valid point.

That is a really good point, I agree.

I guess my frustration with MSHSAA's approach is that they go out of their way to placate little schools in rural areas by putting more regulations on larger, urban and suburban, mostly private schools. I'm not sure why their mission is to satisfy fewer people, but whatever. I would think that keeping powerhouses out of the same districts and seeding teams would be in their best interests.

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1 hour ago, Cowboy said:

-public schools recruit, too

Sure ok. Are you insinuating it's anywhere close to equal?  Larry Hughes, David Lee, Bradley Beal.  How many St. Louis kids that played in the NBA over the last 20 or so years went to private school and how many went to public schools?  I'm sure they all paid full tuition also.

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7 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Sure ok. Are you insinuating it's anywhere close to equal?  Larry Hughes, David Lee, Bradley Beal.  How many St. Louis kids that played in the NBA over the last 20 or so years went to private school and how many went to public schools?  I'm sure they all paid full tuition also.

How many St Louis city kids over the past 25 years went to public schools out in the county?  There was massive recruiting involved with the deseg kids and it really hurt the PHL.

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8 minutes ago, brianstl said:

How many St Louis city kids over the past 25 years went to public schools out in the county?  There was massive recruiting involved with the deseg kids and it really hurt the PHL.

These must have been the kids the private schools didn't want. You think Parkway West would have out recruited Chaminade or CBC for a top notch player? I doubt it.

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32 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Sure ok. Are you insinuating it's anywhere close to equal?  Larry Hughes, David Lee, Bradley Beal.  How many St. Louis kids that played in the NBA over the last 20 or so years went to private school and how many went to public schools?  I'm sure they all paid full tuition also.

Yeah, there's no way David Lee's family could've afforded tuition.

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2 hours ago, Old guy said:

Private schools have an academic advantage which applies to players that are not aiming to be one and dones and have little prospect of being drafted by the NBA after one year. Kids like the ones I am describing have to think about the level and quality of education they will be getting, and generally the private schools have an advantage in this regard. This does not mean that public schools do not provide an excellent education, they do but they may limit the excellent education to students in special honors groups and the athletes are NOT generally included in these groups. 

Some of the best schools in Missouri are public so you can not make a blanket statement like you did.  In fact, the better public schools actually offer a more rigorous option for their students then you get in most private schools.  Private schools tend to offer a more one size fits all - not wrong but public schools have many more audiences to serve so you can actually get access to many more academic high level options.  People choose to go to private schools for lots a of reasons - valid or not - but if they do so because they believe they can not get a rigorous education at a public school then they are misinformed.

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1 hour ago, cheeseman said:

Some of the best schools in Missouri are public so you can not make a blanket statement like you did.  In fact, the better public schools actually offer a more rigorous option for their students then you get in most private schools.  Private schools tend to offer a more one size fits all - not wrong but public schools have many more audiences to serve so you can actually get access to many more academic high level options.  People choose to go to private schools for lots a of reasons - valid or not - but if they do so because they believe they can not get a rigorous education at a public school then they are misinformed.

 

1 minute ago, cheeseman said:

Some of the best schools in Missouri are public so you can not make a blanket statement like you did.  In fact, the better public schools actually offer a more rigorous option for their students then you get in most private schools.  Private schools tend to offer a more one size fits all - not wrong but public schools have many more audiences to serve so you can actually get access to many more academic high level options.  People choose to go to private schools for lots a of reasons - valid or not - but if they do so because they believe they can not get a rigorous education at a public school then they are misinformed.

I guess you had to make sure I got your message, I got it, you are wrong.

First, I am not talking about high school level, I am talking about college and university level schools.

Truman is a public honors school which is uniformly high level education. The rest of the public schools are characterized by one word, big, and, to residents of Missouri, by a lower cost relative to private schools. The public schools with their thousands of students plainly cannot offer high level education to all. They offer a good standard education with a very large spectrum of career choices to most students. They also offer honors tracks which are indeed high level but are not open to everyone. You plainly cannot compare the average level of courses at Mizzou with the average level of courses at Wash U. 

There are a few public colleges and universities with high academic renown in this country. Mizzou is not one of them.

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1 hour ago, Pistol said:

That is a really good point, I agree.

I guess my frustration with MSHSAA's approach is that they go out of their way to placate little schools in rural areas by putting more regulations on larger, urban and suburban, mostly private schools. I'm not sure why their mission is to satisfy fewer people, but whatever. I would think that keeping powerhouses out of the same districts and seeding teams would be in their best interests.

This is no different then why out state MO has more influence in the State Legislature then the urban areas.  For whatever the reason, rural America as a whole thinks they are getting the shaft but they receive far more back then they actually contribute.  As long as this kind of a situation continues to exist, there will always be an imbalance of power.  I would however point out that private schools in urban areas draw from a larger pool then rural schools so that would leave those schools at a disadvantage.

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1 minute ago, Old guy said:

 

I guess you had to make sure I got your message, I got it, you are wrong.

First, I am not talking about high school level, I am talking about college and university level schools.

Truman is a public honors school which is uniformly high level education. The rest of the public schools are characterized by one word, big, and, to residents of Missouri, by a lower cost relative to private schools. The public schools with their thousands of students plainly cannot offer high level education to all. They offer a good standard education with a very large spectrum of career choices to most students. They also offer honors tracks which are indeed high level but are not open to everyone. You plainly cannot compare the average level of courses at Mizzou with the average level of courses at Wash U. 

There are a few public colleges and universities with high academic renown in this country. Mizzou is not one of them.

Not really, my computer was blocking me from responding to another post and then I figured out that I had to repost that other post for some crazy reason.  Perhaps I assumed wrongly but the thread was about high school - sorry.

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5 minutes ago, Old guy said:

 

I guess you had to make sure I got your message, I got it, you are wrong.

First, I am not talking about high school level, I am talking about college and university level schools.

Truman is a public honors school which is uniformly high level education. The rest of the public schools are characterized by one word, big, and, to residents of Missouri, by a lower cost relative to private schools. The public schools with their thousands of students plainly cannot offer high level education to all. They offer a good standard education with a very large spectrum of career choices to most students. They also offer honors tracks which are indeed high level but are not open to everyone. You plainly cannot compare the average level of courses at Mizzou with the average level of courses at Wash U. 

There are a few public colleges and universities with high academic renown in this country. Mizzou is not one of them.

Why are you talking about the college level when everyone else in this thread is talking about highschool?

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19 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

This is no different then why out state MO has more influence in the State Legislature then the urban areas.  For whatever the reason, rural America as a whole thinks they are getting the shaft but they receive far more back then they actually contribute.  As long as this kind of a situation continues to exist, there will always be an imbalance of power.  I would however point out that private schools in urban areas draw from a larger pool then rural schools so that would leave those schools at a disadvantage.

+1,000

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1 hour ago, slufanskip said:

Sure ok. Are you insinuating it's anywhere close to equal?  Larry Hughes, David Lee, Bradley Beal.  How many St. Louis kids that played in the NBA over the last 20 or so years went to private school and how many went to public schools?  I'm sure they all paid full tuition also.

-I believe from seeing it happen that is very close if not equal

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Here in Maryland, private schools play for their own title.  Schools like Boys Latin, Calvert Hall, Catholic High, Garrison Forest, Notre Dame Prep, Mercy, John Carroll and others do not compete against the Dunbars, Digitial Highs, Frederick Douglas and Polys of the high school sports world here.  In nothing -- no sports championships.  In Pennsylvania, where I grew up, my parents fought for the ability to get buses paid for by the state for our school transportation -- saying taxpayer dollars are taxpayer dollars.  They also fought to get u sin the state playoffs and succeeded.  Of course, we were like 1A or 2A schools ---- but we got in providing we won 60% of our games over the course of the season.  Our girls have more state championships there than any of my old boys teams.

Much like Dunbar back in its glory days here in Baltimore, we had one team we feared most of all in Pennsylvania ---- Chester from south of Philly.  They used to put them in our regional 100 miles northwest from Philly and the high school gym -- which sat like 6 or 7 thousand --- was always packed for Chester.

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20 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

These must have been the kids the private schools didn't want. You think Parkway West would have out recruited Chaminade or CBC for a top notch player? I doubt it.

First the Parkway schools weren't the biggest offenders.  You think CBC and Chaminade have always been great at basketball and football in the deseg era?  They used to suck or were slightly above average at those sports.  Schools like CBC and Chaminade after more than a decade of deseg decided to follow the examples of the county public schools.  They would offer those kids a chance to attend their school instead of the county public schools.  

Even after they decided to go that route they still had a distinct disadvantage when it game to competing against the county public schools.  Almost all of the kids that went to school to play sports at schools like CBC/Chaminade still had to have their family make some kind of minimum tuition payments and the kid had to do work study.

 

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44 minutes ago, kshoe said:

Why are you talking about the college level when everyone else in this thread is talking about highschool?

Sorry, my bad, high school means very little to me, I still think of college as the place you start becoming what you will be in life. Again my bad. I guess I am an OMBM (the O is for old).

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1 hour ago, Pistol said:
1 hour ago, Pistol said:

Yeah, there's no way David Lee's family could've afforded tuition.

Yeah, there's no way David Lee's family could've afforded tuition.

I think you realize David Lee would be an exception.

I'll bail on this discussion. Of course public schools recruit top notch athletes at the same rate that private schools.

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