Recruiting - 2017

[HoosierPal]

Here we go with the stars again.  People put way too much stock in how many stars a player has. IU signed a 3* G from Georgia.  Does that make him a bad player?  Butler signed a PG not in the Top 150 on any of your major recruiting site lists.  Bad signing?  Holtmann doesn't think so.  Do you really think coaches start with the stars account prior to seeing a player? 

[majerus mojo]

1 minute ago, HoosierPal said:

Here we go with the stars again.  People put way too much stock in how many stars a player has. IU signed a 3* G from Georgia.  Does that make him a bad player?  Butler signed a PG not in the Top 150 on any of your major recruiting site lists.  Bad signing?  Holtmann doesn't think so.  Do you really think coaches start with the stars account prior to seeing a player? 

Relax bud, we know 

[Box and Won]

Ohio State was good enough for Mike Conley.

[HoosierPal]

26 minutes ago, majerus mojo said:

Relax bud, we know 

"I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore."

[AnkielBreakers]

35 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Do you really think coaches start with the stars account prior to seeing a player? 

Jim Crews sure as hell didn't.

[3star_recruit]

Let's be real HoosierPal. Matta's program is struggling right now because due to health issues the last few years, he hasn't been able to bring in the same quality of guards as he has in the past. And yes, that does mean 4 star and occasionally 5 star players. He's hoping that one of these 3 star players will be a pleasant surprise. Otherwise, he's gone within in 2 years.

In the A10, stars don't mean nearly as much because the conference attracts very few blue chippers in the first place. Richmond is hoping that their unranked guy outperforms St. Bonaventure's unranked guy. The only team that did have multiple blue chippers on its team, VCU, has never had a down year in the conference. This is not an accident.

[cheeseman]

Another kid for the D1 transfer list in a year or 2 when Duke recruits over him.

[TheChosenOne]

Just now, cheeseman said:

Another kid for the D1 transfer list in a year or 2 when Duke recruits over him.

Duke's roster situation this past season was baffling. How does such a loaded roster get to a point where they are riding 6 guys? McDonald's All Americans (Chase Jeter, Harry Giles, Marques Bolden), top 50 recruits (Javin DeLaurier), International kids (Jack White), and transfers in (Sean Obi) riding the pine, made no sense and supports those who question whether going to a top program like Duke truly is the best route to the NBA.

[Franchise_08]

Looks like Kevin Knox will choose Duke over Kentucky and Carolina

[JMM28]

13 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

supports those who question whether going to a top program like Duke truly is the best route to the NBA.

Im firmly in the dank that going to a non elite school is the best move for a top 25-50 type recruit. I think Tatum as the centerpiece of a team with a coach that knew how to use him is being looked at as the consensus number 1 pick right now. Not that a top 7 pick is a terrible consolation, but he has the talent to be top 3 minimum. 

[WVBilliken]

3 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

If the right situation presents itself, any 3 star player can be a P5 recruit. Ohio State, with glaring weaknesses at guard, top 100 players starting to look elsewhere and Matta on the hot seat, may be that situation.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2563653-ranking-the-most-overlooked-college-basketball-recruits-in-the-last-decade

[TFord and TRavs]

2 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

In the A10, stars don't mean nearly as much because the conference doesn't attract very few blue chippers in the first place. Richmond is hoping that their unranked guy outperforms St. Bonaventure's unranked guy. The only team that did have multiple blue chippers on its team, VCU, has never had a down year in the conference. This is not an accident.

This 100 times over. Well said. Saying Stars don't mean anything is crazy. Yes there are exceptions but for the most part more stars usually equate for better success in the mid majors 

[William Iken]

4 hours ago, TFord and TRavs said:

This 100 times over. Well said. Saying Stars don't mean anything is crazy. Yes there are exceptions but for the most part more stars usually equate for better success in the mid majors 

True, but all too often a 2/3* player that signs with a P5 conference team miraculously (and quickly) is re-classified in the star ratings to 4*... So the rating *s are as much following the signings as the coaches following the 4/5* players.

[MattyMo213]

Just some thought that came across my mind that I thought might be interesting to you guys. Looking at Jordan Goodwin's h/w and watching his videos the first comparison I made was to Notre Dame guard Bonzie Colson. For those of you who don't know, Colson is 6-5 and weights 225 pounds. Goodwin is 6-4 and 220, with a possibility of growth. Despite being only 6-5, Colson led the ACC in rebounding with 10.1 rpg, thanks in part to his 7 foot wingspan. I clearly see this comparison in Goodwin as he is just a complete monster on the boards for a guard, with a wingspan of something like 6 foot 10, as well as having that stocky, long armed figure that Colson has.

[Old guy]

13 hours ago, TheChosenOne said:

Duke's roster situation this past season was baffling. How does such a loaded roster get to a point where they are riding 6 guys? McDonald's All Americans (Chase Jeter, Harry Giles, Marques Bolden), top 50 recruits (Javin DeLaurier), International kids (Jack White), and transfers in (Sean Obi) riding the pine, made no sense and supports those who question whether going to a top program like Duke truly is the best route to the NBA.

From some points of view it makes sense. Look at it from the point of view of academic standing. Every kid that goes to Harvard, or Stamford, or UVA is, at least potentially, an academic star. In order to shine among the stars you have to have something that makes the professors think you are special. The so so kids get lost in the shuffle, but if they had gone to school elsewhere they would have been academic stars and got recognition, grants, and choice placement for grad school. Same thing happens with basketball at Duke, Tatum was the centerpiece of a team that had top ranking kids warming the bench, and 6 kids playing regularly. The 6  kids that played regularly managed to show something to the coach that got them to play (and become top draft picks for the NBA) the rest got lost in the shuffle and sat in the bench. The bench warmers would have been stars in most other schools but not in Duke. You can reach your own conclusions, it makes sense to think about it this way, and it also supports what you say above. 

The problem all stars have all the time is that they truly do not think they will become the bench warmers, someone else will become the bench warmers. Try selling that thought to a McDonald's All American Kid.

[3star_recruit]

Young players also are a lot more susceptible to marketing than they were 30 years ago.  We have a 24 hour sports media machine that sings the praises of Duke and Kentucky. It's pretty clear to many of us that a top 25 player would be better off being the alpha dog at Oklahoma State (Jawun Evans) or Purdue (Caleb Swanigan).  And that a top 100 kid would be better off at Creighton (Justin Patton) or SMU (Shake Milton). But it's hard for kids to filter out propaganda when they are 17.

[CBFan]

3 star why do the kids stay at Duke and not transfer for more playing time?  Coach K running a 6 man rotation proved to not being a good move by Coach K in the NCAA tournament based on the results.  I wonder how good a team would be with the 7 bench players on the same team?

[SLU_Nick]

1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

Young players also are a lot more susceptible to marketing than they were 30 years ago.  We have a 24 hour sports media machine that sings the praises of Duke and Kentucky. It's pretty clear to many of us that a top 25 player would be better off being the alpha dog at Oklahoma State (Jawun Evans) or Purdue (Caleb Swanigan).  And that a top 100 kid would be better off at Creighton (Justin Patton) or SMU (Shake Milton). But it's hard for kids to filter out propaganda when they are 17.

I agree with this.  Marcus Bolden from Duke is the one that pops to my mind.  He looks like a Dwight Howard clone, but cannot get off the bench because Coach K loves Amile Jefferson and 4 guards.  If Bolden would have went to South Carolina, he probably would have been a top 10 pick and maybe even have an NCAA champsionship under his belt.

 

[cheeseman]

2 hours ago, Old guy said:

From some points of view it makes sense. Look at it from the point of view of academic standing. Every kid that goes to Harvard, or Stamford, or UVA is, at least potentially, an academic star. In order to shine among the stars you have to have something that makes the professors think you are special. The so so kids get lost in the shuffle, but if they had gone to school elsewhere they would have been academic stars and got recognition, grants, and choice placement for grad school. Same thing happens with basketball at Duke, Tatum was the centerpiece of a team that had top ranking kids warming the bench, and 6 kids playing regularly. The 6  kids that played regularly managed to show something to the coach that got them to play (and become top draft picks for the NBA) the rest got lost in the shuffle and sat in the bench. The bench warmers would have been stars in most other schools but not in Duke. You can reach your own conclusions, it makes sense to think about it this way, and it also supports what you say above. 

The problem all stars have all the time is that they truly do not think they will become the bench warmers, someone else will become the bench warmers. Try selling that thought to a McDonald's All American Kid.

Samford - surely you mean Stanford

[cheeseman]

2 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

Young players also are a lot more susceptible to marketing than they were 30 years ago.  We have a 24 hour sports media machine that sings the praises of Duke and Kentucky. It's pretty clear to many of us that a top 25 player would be better off being the alpha dog at Oklahoma State (Jawun Evans) or Purdue (Caleb Swanigan).  And that a top 100 kid would be better off at Creighton (Justin Patton) or SMU (Shake Milton). But it's hard for kids to filter out propaganda when they are 17.

Not SLU?

[Glorydays2013]

Duke is already struggling with that and PT now it seems. Looks like players want to be a star at their school instead of a benchwarmer at Duke or Kansas

[Old guy]

41 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Samford - surely you mean Stanford

Yes, I meant Stamford, my bad, sorry.

[cheeseman]

53 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Yes, I meant Stamford, my bad, sorry.

Uhh?

[For-DaLove]

2 hours ago, SLU_Nick said:

I agree with this.  Marcus Bolden from Duke is the one that pops to my mind.  He looks like a Dwight Howard clone, but cannot get off the bench because Coach K loves Amile Jefferson and 4 guards.  If Bolden would have went to South Carolina, he probably would have been a top 10 pick and maybe even have an NCAA champsionship under his belt.

 

This seems like a major exaggeration. Dwight Howard has 2-3 inches and 40+ pounds on Bolden. If Bolden was anywhere good enough to be a top 10 pick in this year's draft he would've played for Duke.

[Old guy]

19 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Uhh?

OK, there we go to satisfy the spelling cops, Stanford. OK now?