Recruiting - 2017

[kshoe]

9 minutes ago, 615Billiken said:

I want Khalea Turner-Morris more than anyone. Fills an immediate need and is still improves the roster.

I feel like that ship has sailed with the signing of Santos and our needs for 2018 schollys.

What I think/hope happens is that we get Pickett and an immediately eligible graduate big man transfer.

[615Billiken]

7 minutes ago, kshoe said:

I feel like that ship has sailed with the signing of Santos and our needs for 2018 schollys.

What I think/hope happens is that we get Pickett and an immediately eligible graduate big man transfer.

But wouldn't that still leave us extremely weak at the 5?

[HoosierPal]

13 minutes ago, kshoe said:

I feel like that ship has sailed with the signing of Santos and our needs for 2018 schollys.

What I think/hope happens is that we get Pickett and an immediately eligible graduate big man transfer.

I'm buying what you are sellling.  I'm always cautious on grad transfers.  Good side is that they are smart basketball players, having earned a degree in 3 years. The bad side is that they typically aren't good enough to play professionally, or they wouldn't be spending another year in school when they could be playing for pay.  I'm sure there are exceptions where a GT has come in with a solid season, but the norm is more like 6th man and a stabilizing influence. 

I would be interested in a list of higher than average successful GT's, something like top three in team scoring, etc. Any GT's you are aware of that after getting their graduate degree (cough, cough) ended up playing professionally - likely Europe?

But with our hole in the center, we could use a stabilzer. 

[3star_recruit]

Just checked out Akron's board, one of the schools that offered Pickett.  Hearing a lot about other players, but only two posts about Pickett.  One of the posters, after looking at his highlight video, described Pickett as an "undersized small forward who needs to work on his handles."

On a related note, late blooming 6-3 G just completed an official visit to Akron this weekend.

[3star_recruit]

13 minutes ago, 615Billiken said:

But wouldn't that still leave us extremely weak at the 5?

Name me three effective 5s in the Atlantic 10.  I'll wait.

[HoosierPal]

31 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Name me three effective 5s in the Atlantic 10.  I'll wait.

This is an interesting topic.  The rub is 'what is a 5'?  Classical big, post players are almost a thing of the past.  Gonzaga and UNC had classical post players and did well this year, but giants of the past are few and far between.

I looked at Dayton's and VCU's rosters, and they did not even list a C on their squad.  Cline was listed as a F/C.  So this discussion likely will turn into, "No, he's not a 5."  The other subjective issue is what is "effective".

Anyway, four effective interior A10 players from last season are

Cline, Richmond, Pollard Dayton, Cox VCU and Tillman VCU.

Cline is 6'9", Cox and Tillman 6'7", and Pollard 6'6".  Shows that you don't need 6'10"+ in the A10 to be effective. 

 

[ACE]

2 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

This is an interesting topic.  The rub is 'what is a 5'?  Classical big, post players are almost a thing of the past.  I looked at Dayton's and VCU's rosters, and they did not even list a C on their squad.  Cline was listed as a F/C.  So this discussion likely will turn into, "No, he's not a 5."  The other subjective issue is what is "effective".

Anyway, four effective interior players from last season are

Cline, Richmond, Pollard Dayton, Cox VCU and Tillman VCU.

Cline is 6'9", Cox and Tillman 6'7", and Pollard 6'6".  Shows that you don't need 6'10"+ in the A10 to be effective. 

 

Tyler Cavanaugh from GW was very good.

[HoosierPal]

2 minutes ago, ACE said:

Tyler Cavanaugh from GW was very good.

NO HE'S NOT A 5!

Just joking.  Yeah, he was solid.  Most, or all of these guys are inside-out players. 

Our two listed centers played a total of 283 minutes.

[jimbofive]

7 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Gonzaga and UNC had classical post players and did well this year, but giants of the past are few and far between.

Karnowski was not a traditional 5.  He was a 7'2” pu$$y who liked floaters and shovel passes.

[kshoe]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

I'm buying what you are sellling.  I'm always cautious on grad transfers.  Good side is that they are smart basketball players, having earned a degree in 3 years. The bad side is that they typically aren't good enough to play professionally, or they wouldn't be spending another year in school when they could be playing for pay.  I'm sure there are exceptions where a GT has come in with a solid season, but the norm is more like 6th man and a stabilizing influence. 

I would be interested in a list of higher than average successful GT's, something like top three in team scoring, etc. Any GT's you are aware of that after getting their graduate degree (cough, cough) ended up playing professionally - likely Europe?

But with our hole in the center, we could use a stabilzer. 

Who's more likely to help us fill the need for a big man next year:

- A middle of the road grad transfer big man that is looking for one final year and hopefully an NCAA tourney appearance

- A freshman that is still available in the spring signing period and doesn't have any P6 offers (or if he does only has a couple). 

I'll take a 22 year old any day in that situation.

[Aquinas]

I agree that you don't need a classic big man to do well in the A10.  But you do if you want to beat top 25 programs.  I attended the Kentucky / Florida game at Florida this year.  Floridas big man frustrated Kentucky's big man.  Forced him to alter his shots, shoot a little further from the basket than he liked and kicked the ball back out to the guards.  Florida blew them out.  In the rematch however, floridas big man was injured and Kentucky won that game.  Yes there are examples of teams winning with smaller post players.  But a solid 6'9" or better player makes defending the post a lot easier.  If our post player can contain theirs without needing help, it greatly improves the half court defense. 

[TFord and TRavs]

With the athletes Ford brings in, I don't think the traditional 5 is what we need 

[3star_recruit]

4 minutes ago, Aquinas said:

I agree that you don't need a classic big man to do well in the A10.  But you do if you want to beat top 10 programs.  I attended the Kentucky / Florida game at Florida this year.  Floridas big man frustrated Kentucky's big man.  Forced him to alter his shots, shoot a little further from the basket than he liked and kicked the ball back out to the guards.  Florida blew them out.

Fixed that for ya.  And I'm not concerned about beating top 10 programs next year.  I doubt we'll have any on the schedule.

 

[SLURadioBoy]

Frank just mentioned that SLU is in good shape for Pickett, but Western Kentucky is going hard after him too.

[Glorydays2013]

7 minutes ago, SLURadioBoy said:

Frank just mentioned that SLU is in good shape for Pickett, but Western Kentucky is going hard after him too.

Hey where are you guys listening to him? I tried to find his shows online and can't

[Littlebill]

Just now, Glorydays2013 said:

Hey where are you guys listening to him? I tried to find his shows online and can't

590 the fan - insidestl.com

[Glorydays2013]

39 minutes ago, Littlebill said:

590 the fan - insidestl.com

Which show is he on? and thank you

[SLURadioBoy]

Just now, Glorydays2013 said:

Which show is he on? and thank you

The Pressbox. It's on from 10 a.m. until noon each day.

[Bizziken]

2 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

This is an interesting topic.  The rub is 'what is a 5'?  Classical big, post players are almost a thing of the past.  Gonzaga and UNC had classical post players and did well this year, but giants of the past are few and far between.

I looked at Dayton's and VCU's rosters, and they did not even list a C on their squad.  Cline was listed as a F/C.  So this discussion likely will turn into, "No, he's not a 5."  The other subjective issue is what is "effective".

Anyway, four effective interior A10 players from last season are

Cline, Richmond, Pollard Dayton, Cox VCU and Tillman VCU.

Cline is 6'9", Cox and Tillman 6'7", and Pollard 6'6".  Shows that you don't need 6'10"+ in the A10 to be effective. 

 

Kevin Larsen was a beast for GW a couple years ago. It seemed like he was there forever! That's the type of impact a true C in this league can have. 

Similarly, Esho and Lalanne were beasts down low for UMass in our league, and that seems like the type of roster we are compiling. 

53 minutes ago, SLURadioBoy said:

Frank just mentioned that SLU is in good shape for Pickett, but Western Kentucky is going hard after him too.

WKU = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Taj79]

Tyler Cavanaugh was not a 5.  Neither was Cline.  Neither is Aldridge at Davidson.  Interior players this year in the A10 would have been the aforementioned Pollard, Alie-Cox, Tillman. And then some "questionable" others ---- Hamdy at VCU; Cunningham and Miller at Dayton; a boatload at Rhodey (not all good) in Martin, Iverson, Langevine, Berry, and maybe even Akele; Andoh, Obokoh and Ikpeze at Bonaventure; Toro at Geedubya; Henry at La Salle; and Holloway at Umass.  And because we are all not likely to recognize these names, we won't conclude that play in the paint in the A10 is anything near the need for a dominant big man.  One might argue that a big five on our roster would be suspect in terms of hiding him defensively if he has to go out and play/cover the likes of reciprocal bigs in Cavanaugh, Pollard, Cline, etc. 

Over the years, few true bigs have played in the A10 and even fewer have dominated.  Chris Canty at Fordham.  Ian at SLU.  The Nigerian big man at Bonaventure.  The twin tower set up at Umass a few years back.  Larson was good but not dominant.  That's why I happen to subscribe to the theory that the college game is a guard's game an dold lineup configurations --- like those at Louisville during the Doctors of Dunk and at Illinois with Kendall Gill --- work well today.  You can run a Karnowski out of a building with enough athletic fours that you don't need a dominant five any more.

[RiseOfTheBillikens]

Mark Smith to make his decision Wednesday. People are saying Tilmon could potentially follow him to U of Illinois. Be pretty funny to see Mizzou miss out on him and knox.  Hopefully Pickett commits to us soon. I like getting these local kids.  I think it will help to build the hype. 

[Bills_06]

7 hours ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

Mark Smith to make his decision Wednesday. People are saying Tilmon could potentially follow him to U of Illinois. Be pretty funny to see Mizzou miss out on him and knox.  Hopefully Pickett commits to us soon. I like getting these local kids.  I think it will help to build the hype. 

The Tilmon situation is kind of strange in that has he even visited any place since his release?  I know Self and Martin went to visit him but don't recall him making campus visits

[gobillsgo]

2 hours ago, Bills_06 said:

The Tilmon situation is kind of strange in that has he even visited any place since his release?  I know Self and Martin went to visit him but don't recall him making campus visits

Only a rumor of him being on SLU's campus last week, but I think most on here agree that was likely Khalea Turner-Morris. 

[slu72]

Our own Rob Loe was an effective big, especially his SR year. I think we all naively thought or hoped maybe Jolly Folly and Gillman could become a Loe type. Sadly, they never came close. Everyone believes these days that college ball is a guard's game, but that can change in a heartbeat if you can find a talented big like an Anthony Davis. I know it's ancient history but talented 5's dominated college hoops back in the 60s and 70s. Problem is there's not many of them these days. Think how good we might have been back in '11-'12 and '12 and '13 had Willie stuck it out. .

[davidnark]

3 hours ago, slu72 said:

Our own Rob Loe was an effective big, especially his SR year. I think we all naively thought or hoped maybe Jolly Folly and Gillman could become a Loe type. Sadly, they never came close. Everyone believes these days that college ball is a guard's game, but that can change in a heartbeat if you can find a talented big like an Anthony Davis. I know it's ancient history but talented 5's dominated college hoops back in the 60s and 70s. Problem is there's not many of them these days. Think how good we might have been back in '11-'12 and '12 and '13 had Willie stuck it out. .

The challenge for bigs is that the guard play has been revolutionized in the last decade. The handles and 3-point shooting of this generation is so advanced. When I learned to play in the mid-80s, we were discouraged from dribbling through the legs, behind the back, crossing over, etc., and you only took an outside shot if it was a wide open jumper. Now, 7-year olds are being taught to handle it like Chris Paul, and kids are taught to shoot the ball from deep off of crossovers and step-backs. A big man has to be pretty dominate to repeatedly get looks for 2 points when offenses are designed with 4 guys on the perimeter looking to get the best look from 3. Steph Curry and GSW have only further empowered this movement.

All of that being said, my observation from this year's NCAA tournament is that teams who could move the ball through a strong inside player outperformed those who didn't have that strong option.