Big East: Xavier AD Speaks About Expansion

[brianstl]

If you don't get an equal share of the TV money and the conference share of the tourney money for multiple years you don't go. You can't give you're conference opponents multiple economic advantages and expect to compete with them.

[billiken_roy]

Maybe you were at a different luncheon or you were drunk. It was definitely said there were factors that made the decision more difficult than you are stating.

[kshoe]

Maybe you were at a different luncheon or you were drunk. It was definitely said there were factors that made the decision more difficult than you are stating.

"Factors" does not necessarily equal "expansion will not bring full share status to those coming in." You are making that part up. We all understand the loss of tourney credits and the A-10 buyout as being factors.

The message from the luncheon was very clear to me "there are things that make it more difficult but if given the opportunity we will go." You acting as if its a tough decision is completely disingenuous.

[slu72]

Sometimes I think Broy would prefer we stay as the little engine that could. He never liked the idea of our big time coaching hire and now he's got some negativity towards joining the Beast. I don't understand why he likes our previous model over what's hopefully becoming a golden age for Billiken hoops.

[brianstl]

Sometimes I think Broy would prefer we stay as the little engine that could. He never liked the idea of our big time coaching hire and now he's got some negativity towards joining the Beast. I don't understand why he likes our previous model over what's hopefully becoming a golden age for Billiken hoops.

Roy actually was happy with the Rickma hire when it happened. He turned on him later.

If everything is equal, then the Big East is a no brainer. If it isn't then that is another story.

[Old guy]

I think, and this is just my opinion not fact, that billiken roy is merely stating something that should be completely clear to us. First of all that there are many factors and many angles that must be considered before a decision to change conferences is made. Second that we have not been invited to join the Big East, and that such an invitation is NOT certain to happen. Finally, I think he is saying that before we decide to go along and join the Big East, we must carefully weigh all factors involved and decide which way to go is best for us, all things considered. This is decidedly not a knee jerk decision.

[billiken_roy]

Sometimes I think Broy would prefer we stay as the little engine that could. He never liked the idea of our big time coaching hire and now he's got some negativity towards joining the Beast. I don't understand why he likes our previous model over what's hopefully becoming a golden age for Billiken hoops.

No this is wrong. I am all for it as long as it makes sense and is equally fair. For all. We should not have to be some sort of second class or junior member and financially the end result after penalties, entry fees and lost credits, we should come out. Kshoe is definitely having a memory issue. It is not a lay down.

[billiken_roy]

I think, and this is just my opinion not fact, that billiken roy is merely stating something that should be completely clear to us. First of all that there are many factors and many angles that must be considered before a decision to change conferences is made. Second that we have not been invited to join the Big East, and that such an invitation is NOT certain to happen. Finally, I think he is saying that before we decide to go along and join the Big East, we must carefully weigh all factors involved and decide which way to go is best for us, all things considered. This is decidedly not a knee jerk decision.

Thank you! and that was what was told to us at the luncheon with specific issues that are not answered yet in slu's favor.

[slu72]

One thing that everyone seems to be overlooking is geography. If UD and SLU are added, they'll likely go to a two division set up, which will reduce our travel budget significantly. Right now our closest opponents in the A10 are UD and DU. In the new beast, we'd be ringing up a lot less miles if they have a western division, Chicago, Milwaukee, Cincy, Indy, Omaha vs Philly, NYC, RI, Mass. Doesn't matter too much for hoops, but for the non revenue sports it would make a nice dent in their budgets.

[Quality Is Job 1]

You have to weigh the benefits as well as the costs. I suspect it would be more beneficial, in the long run, for SLU to be in the Big East rather than in the A-10, the MVC, or independent even if there's a temporary inequity in membership status. I seriously doubt any buy-in cost would be permanent.

Why is it that Div. II or NAIA schools are willing to endure their probationary period to become Div. I?

[kshoe]

Despite Roy's protestations I can tell you I have the utmost confidence that SLU has ALREADY weighed the benefits and costs of such a move and the decision has been made to move if invited. I gathered that not just from the lunch but from just about every single interview May has done on the subject where he says we are proud members of the A-10 but are reviewing our options and gives that knowing smirk.

If we really were in a situation where we didn't think it would be advantageous to move, the tone would be completely different.

[billiken_roy]

Apparently the "k" in kshoe stands for kreskin

[kshoe]

Apparently the "k" in kshoe stands for kreskin

This coming from the guy that is always "reading between the lines" to jump to conclusions.

I really do wonder what color the sky is in the world of someone that believes SLU hasn't already made the decision to move to the Big East if invited.

[Yenlar]

How many bids will they Big East get?

If they have a disaster of year and end with two bids does that effect anything?

Beyond being one less at large bid.

If they have a great year do they take potential at large bids away from the A10?

If the A10 ends the season with more bids than the Big East does that effect anything?

If going forward the A10 puts more teams in the tournament of the next 12 years?

[Quality Is Job 1]

If going forward the A10 puts more teams in the tournament of the next 12 years?

With the absence of Xavier and Temple — not factoring in Butler because they were in the conference only one year — I really don't see the A-10 being able to get more at-large Tournament invitations than the Big East over a long period.

[billiken_roy]

Abf, look at RPI last year for top 8 A-10 plus george mason and davidson abd compare to the 10 NBE. Not all that big of difference.

[Littlebill]

Abf, look at RPI last year for top 8 A-10 plus george mason and davidson abd compare to the 10 NBE. Not all that big of difference.

He did say "over a long period."

Last time I checked, LaSalle isn't putting a team like last year's on the court every year....

[milwaukeebill]

Abf, look at RPI last year for top 8 A-10 plus george mason and davidson abd compare to the 10 NBE. Not all that big of difference.

If you can't tell the truth. Lie. If you cant lie, use statistics. Especially ones that are so convulded as yours is.

[JettFlight5]

If the Big East calls, SLU goes. This notion of second-class citizens? That's fine.

The Big East is a more prestigious conference with more national attention.

There is zero downside to leaving the Atlantic 10. None.

[kshoe]

If you can't tell the truth. Lie. If you cant lie, use statistics. Especially ones that are so convulded as yours is.

The problem is, what Roy is saying about the RPIs being comparable isn't even remotely true. It is flat out wrong.

Here are the RPIs of the two conferences as of last season:

Team RPI Rank

Marquette 0.6358 13

Georgetown 0.6260 15

Butler 0.6131 21

Creighton 0.6106 22

Villanova 0.5745 54

Providence 0.5495 86

Saint John's 0.5471 89

Xavier 0.5426 95

Seton Hall 0.5175 133

DePaul 0.4731 204

Average 0.5690

Team RPI Rank

Saint Louis 0.6175 17

Virginia Commonwealth 0.6085 26

La Salle 0.5985 34

Massachusetts 0.5671 59

Richmond 0.5457 91

Saint Joseph's 0.5397 100

Dayton 0.5258 115

George Mason 0.5217 123

Saint Bonaventure 0.5132 144

George Washington 0.5106 148

Rhode Island 0.4755 202

Fordham 0.4588 232

Duquesne 0.4593 231

Average (With SLU) 0.5340

Average (Without SLU) 0.5270

Even if you somehow want to argue that the Big East having 8 of 10 teams in the top 100 RPI is comparable to the A-10 having 5 of 13 in the top 100, you need to look at the average RPI numbers to see how the two conferences will stack up to the rest of college basketball. Here is that data:

Conference Average Rank

Big Ten 0.5805 1

Mountain West 0.5731 2

New Big East 0.5690 3

ACC 0.5593 4

Big 12 0.5555 5

Pac 12 0.5522 6

Missouri Valley 0.5383 7

SEC 0.538 8

New A-10 (With SLU) 0.5340 9

West Coast 0.5316 10

New A-10 (Without SLU) 0.5270 10A

Conference USA 0.5183 11

Horizon League 0.4963 12

I'd argue you should really be comparing the new Big East (3rd) to the New A-10 without SLU (10th) since the question is about who would SLU rather be with. Even if you want to include SLU in the A-10 number it only moves the A-10 up to 9th.

Yeah, these are two comparable conferences RPI wise.

p.s. apologize for the ugly format. Couldn't get the Excel tables to post properly.

[thetorch]

I've made this point before but I somewhat agree with Roy.

The BE is the better conference easily and if invited SLU will and should accept the invitation.

Still don't complain when/if we are the dregs of the league along with Depaul. There will be a sizable financial disparity in terms of what the new members receive as opposed to the old. That was out in numerous reports last year. Add in to the fact that SLU spends already significantly less than most of the new BE and we may be doomed to failure or at least tournament runs that are few and far between,

You have to put yourself in the best conference possible always but there is an advantage to being the strongest team in a weaker league. If SLU decide to make the necessary changes to compete on an even keel with Marquette, Georgetown, etc, fine. If not we should consider staying where we are.

[Taj79]

It's all conjecture, speculation and imagination. If you're SLU, you are not going to piss your prom date off (A10) until you have a better option. All the public comments will be pro-A10. Behind the scenes? It could change. I was told in Brooklyn our invite would come by 30 June 2013. That obviously did not happen. And I lost little to no sleep over it.

[JettFlight5]

It's all conjecture, speculation and imagination. If you're SLU, you are not going to piss your prom date off (A10) until you have a better option. All the public comments will be pro-A10. Behind the scenes? It could change. I was told in Brooklyn our invite would come by 30 June 2013. That obviously did not happen. And I lost little to no sleep over it.

You really have nothing to lose by "pissing off" the A-10, but it makes sense not to do it publicly.

I don't like the whole Butler approach (dominate a weak league), so I would take a Big East ticket where it is possible to struggle over winning the A-10.

[cheeseman]

I know you can make stats say what you want some time but you can not take Butler and X out and try to create a comparable stat. It is not a statistical accurate method but I get the point is trying to do it. I would also hope that with Biondi gone the AD will get more money if the new prez has any interest in athletics. Finally, if the money coming in is more to the program from changing conferences then it only makes sense that some of that if not most will go to the program. I do agree that more $ will have to be spent if we change leagues to stay competetive.

[RiseAndGrind]

I can't believe this is even a debate.

The unequal revenue sharing has long been a rumor but I've never seen it confirmed.

IF the calls comes, SLU should say yes before the NBE finishes asking the question.