Burwell's Article Today

[cheeseman]

This not meant to be an attack on Burwell - he actually has been fair with us the last two years so I have no real complaints. However in his article today he says that the only way SLU can continue to fill the seats is to have local kids on the team. He does say that he had no problem with the talent that RM brought in but sees the lack of local players as a draw problem. This idea that local players bring in ticket purchases is honestly a small minded approach - when has all the local players that we have had created sell outs? - the only sell outs at the Chafietz have been since RM has been here and this year. I know about Spoon but honestly that was a Spoon thing as much as anything. Yes we had Highmark and Claggett but the odds of us getting the top two players out of StL ever year is very slim if ever.

The other issue in his article that I find wrong headed is when he talks about Crews showing he can do the day to day coaching required so he should get the job. All these media types who are pushing Crews all seem to manage to leave out or forget the entire recruiting part of the job. They simply think that recruiting is something that everybody can do apparently. If SLU hires Crews I will still be supportive of the program but I will also be watching carefully and if it looks like things are going south I will be the first to start calling for heads. Crews and May are on a short leash with me.

[MusicCityBilliken]

Reminds me of Gordo's article hawking for the Valley.

Getting the Lee's, the Beale's, Porter's, etc.. would be great but they all left the state.

Actually when we got into league play attendance was pretty good. Unfortunately, November was not a good month for us and OOC schedule was not exactly challenging with tradition rich basketball programs.

[pretty_ricky]

am I the only one who thinks that even getting one decent recruit (mike crawford) already is an impressive feat for an interim coach?

[kshoe]

This not meant to be an attack on Burwell - he actually has been fair with us the last two years so I have no real complaints. However in his article today he says that the only way SLU can continue to fill the seats is to have local kids on the team. He does say that he had no problem with the talent that RM brought in but sees the lack of local players as a draw problem. This idea that local players bring in ticket purchases is honestly a small minded approach - when has all the local players that we have had created sell outs? - the only sell outs at the Chafietz have been since RM has been here and this year. I know about Spoon but honestly that was a Spoon thing as much as anything. Yes we had Highmark and Claggett but the odds of us getting the top two players out of StL ever year is very slim if ever.

The other issue in his article that I find wrong headed is when he talks about Crews showing he can do the day to day coaching required so he should get the job. All these media types who are pushing Crews all seem to manage to leave out or forget the entire recruiting part of the job. They simply think that recruiting is something that everybody can do apparently. If SLU hires Crews I will still be supportive of the program but I will also be watching carefully and if it looks like things are going south I will be the first to start calling for heads. Crews and May are on a short leash with me.

Here is what Burwell wrote:

’ve waited to weigh in on the SLU coaching situation mainly because I knew there was no need to until now. He has proven that he can do the hardest part of the job – the day-to-day and in-game coaching. So if he wants the job, he ought to get it. Increase his staff budget so he can increase his assistants’ pay and bring in a well-paid staffer to do the heavy lifting in recruiting.

Recruiting is SLU’s biggest challenge. Because this is a city school, its local popularity hinges on signing meaningful local talent. It doesn’t need to be so parochial that every roster spot is filled with area kids, because quite frankly I have no complaints about the sort of talent that Rick Majerus was able to bring in here with a more national focus. But for SLU to sell out that gym every night with folks with no ties to the school who are hard-core hoop fans, historically that has only happened when a few local stars are on that roster.

I rarely, if ever feel the need to defend Burwell but you seem to be uber nitpicking here. He says directly that if they hire Crews they need to bring in a top notch assistant to do the heavy lifting on recruiting. I'm not sure how you can claim he "manages to leave out or forget the entire recruiting part of the job" when he directly addresses how SLU should handle it.

And as for the recruiting of local kids, Burwell basically says that except for Majerus' built team this year we have never sold out the arena without local kids. And basically that is true. What other time period in modern history has SLU sold out numerous games without a bunch of local kids?

[brianstl]

This not meant to be an attack on Burwell - he actually has been fair with us the last two years so I have no real complaints. However in his article today he says that the only way SLU can continue to fill the seats is to have local kids on the team. He does say that he had no problem with the talent that RM brought in but sees the lack of local players as a draw problem. This idea that local players bring in ticket purchases is honestly a small minded approach - when has all the local players that we have had created sell outs? - the only sell outs at the Chafietz have been since RM has been here and this year. I know about Spoon but honestly that was a Spoon thing as much as anything. Yes we had Highmark and Claggett but the odds of us getting the top two players out of StL ever year is very slim if ever.

The other issue in his article that I find wrong headed is when he talks about Crews showing he can do the day to day coaching required so he should get the job. All these media types who are pushing Crews all seem to manage to leave out or forget the entire recruiting part of the job. They simply think that recruiting is something that everybody can do apparently. If SLU hires Crews I will still be supportive of the program but I will also be watching carefully and if it looks like things are going south I will be the first to start calling for heads. Crews and May are on a short leash with me.

Majerus was the first coach to coach at Chaifetz.

Some local kids would bring in some more casual fans, but winning brings in more people than anything else. You never hear anyone say the Cardinals need more local players, because they win.

[almaman]

am I the only one who thinks that even getting one decent recruit (mike crawford) already is an impressive feat for an interim coach?

no count me too. one or two more good ones, three I hope and we have a solid year of recruiting IMHO

[cheeseman]

Here is what Burwell wrote:

’ve waited to weigh in on the SLU coaching situation mainly because I knew there was no need to until now. He has proven that he can do the hardest part of the job – the day-to-day and in-game coaching. So if he wants the job, he ought to get it. Increase his staff budget so he can increase his assistants’ pay and bring in a well-paid staffer to do the heavy lifting in recruiting.

Recruiting is SLU’s biggest challenge. Because this is a city school, its local popularity hinges on signing meaningful local talent. It doesn’t need to be so parochial that every roster spot is filled with area kids, because quite frankly I have no complaints about the sort of talent that Rick Majerus was able to bring in here with a more national focus. But for SLU to sell out that gym every night with folks with no ties to the school who are hard-core hoop fans, historically that has only happened when a few local stars are on that roster.

I rarely, if ever feel the need to defend Burwell but you seem to be uber nitpicking here. He says directly that if they hire Crews they need to bring in a top notch assistant to do the heavy lifting on recruiting. I'm not sure how you can claim he "manages to leave out or forget the entire recruiting part of the job" when he directly addresses how SLU should handle it.

And as for the recruiting of local kids, Burwell basically says that except for Majerus' built team this year we have never sold out the arena without local kids. And basically that is true. What other time period in modern history has SLU sold out numerous games without a bunch of local kids?

The problem is why would anybody think a top asst coach that is a big time recruiter would come to SLU over say Ohio State or Florida or Georgetown. To say hire Crews and then go get a top recruiter to handle that end is like saying I plan to be worth millions but first I have to win the big lottery. I did mention the Spoon era thing so please give me a specific other time that local kids have caused the seats to be sold out.

Brian - you are correct on RM and Chafiez.

[slufanskip]

The recruiter could be a younger guy that has done well at a lower level. One of the selling points of coming to SLU as an Assistant would be ... how long does JC have. 5-6 years? I'd love to see us grooming our next head coach

[kshoe]

The problem is why would anybody think a top asst coach that is a big time recruiter would come to SLU over say Ohio State or Florida or Georgetown. To say hire Crews and then go get a top recruiter to handle that end is like saying I plan to be worth millions but first I have to win the big lottery. I did mention the Spoon era thing so please give me a specific other time that local kids have caused the seats to be sold out.

Brian - you are correct on RM and Chafiez.

In the modern era we have really only sold out during the Spoon years and during the last half of this season. Maybe you could also add the Rich Grawer heyday when we are playing at the Kiel. Nevertheless, criticizing a sports writer for suggesting that more local kids could improve attendance seems a little silly, especially given that its likely true. Like any attribution, its hard to know what role pure winning, vs. local players, vs. a dynamic head coach, vs. cheap tickets, vs. the weather play in generating large crowds but I doubt anyone believes that having local players does anything but help attendance.

As for the assistant coaches, there have to be some young, hungry coaches that are looking for a raise and an opportunity to show off their abilities. Given that we likely won't be spending as much on Crews as we did on Majerus and using either the new revenues from the Big East or the last 2 tournament runs, we should have the funds available to properly pay one or two top notch assistants.

[bk18]

for being the only D1 program in a major city with no NBA team, the following is kind of weak outside the SLU community. I think having more local players will help but it is going to take a winning tradition and a variety of other factors.

[aj_arete]

This idea that local players bring in ticket purchases is honestly a small minded approach - when has all the local players that we have had created sell outs? -

I call Burwell's theory that SLU needs to bring local kids, the "Steamers" mindset. For those unfamiliar with the St. Louis Steamers, they were part of the Major Indoor Soccer League, whose success was attributed to bringing in a bunch of local soccer stars, sprinkled in with a few non-locals (Slobo). While it worked then, I don't think it's necessary today. Winning will fill up the seats. It worked in the MISL because St. Louis used to be a strong source of soccer talent.

Yes, Grawer was successful using this strategy, but that was with a mid-major conference. If SLU wants to reach the level of Xavier or Gonzaga on a consistent basis, they need to recruit nationally and not worry about hometowns.

[Bobby Metzinger]

I call Burwell's theory that SLU needs to bring local kids, the "Steamers" mindset. For those unfamiliar with the St. Louis Steamers, they were part of the Major Indoor Soccer League, whose success was attributed to bringing in a bunch of local soccer stars, sprinkled in with a few non-locals (Slobo). While it worked then, I don't think it's necessary today. Winning will fill up the seats. It worked in the MISL because St. Louis used to be a strong source of soccer talent.

Yes, Grawer was successful using this strategy, but that was with a mid-major conference. If SLU wants to reach the level of Xavier or Gonzaga on a consistent basis, they need to recruit nationally and not worry about hometowns.

+1,000,000

Regards,

Kramer Soderberg

[courtside]

But, it isn't true.

Saying, getting more local kids will increase attendance is roughly similar to saying SLU will draw more fans by playing more geographically closer teams, i.e. the MVC. It isn't true. There have been plenty of seats available in the recent past when SLU has played such teams.

SLU finished in the top ten Nationally last year in the category of increased attendance from the year before. What changed? Winning, a better team playing more competitive games vs competitive opponents. The geographic origin of the players on SLU's team didn't matter.

SLU's home game this year va VCU was one of the loudest Nationally this year. It wasn't because of local players on the team. It wasn't because it was played on a Tuesday night. It wasn't because SLU had a good team, playing a good opponent, in a bigger game.

The quantity of people that wouldn't go to a game because the players aren't local is miniscule. And, many of these same people still go anyway, even if those people would like to see a local player. There are plenty of casual fans out there that would scoop up tickets that have no interest in the geographic origins of the players. Do people think people cheered any less for SLU's players because they weren't from the local area?

Those teams that had higher attendance, just so happened to be good teams.

The crowd wasn't so great playing Blackburn on a weekday afternoon in some of the times of Burden and Leonard. Neither was the team.

Attendance has been down for years across the board in college basketball.

I spoke with many casual fans, many of whom were attending their first SLU game this year. None discussed the local player component as a reason whether they would come more often.

It's always encouraged to leave no stone unturned in recruiting, locally, regionally, nationally, internationally.

This general topic can be applied to other schools too. It isn't SLU specific.

The people aren't going to be less interested because Dwayne Evans is not from the local area, or insert player here. They want to have a good time. They want to see a competitive, exciting game, with good teams, and atmosphere.

They want to have fun. Because SLU has struggled for so long, it will take some more time than others to give it a try. They root for the name on the front.

There were a few good topics in that article. Saying local players will improve attendance isn't one of them.

[cheeseman]

In the modern era we have really only sold out during the Spoon years and during the last half of this season. Maybe you could also add the Rich Grawer heyday when we are playing at the Kiel. Nevertheless, criticizing a sports writer for suggesting that more local kids could improve attendance seems a little silly, especially given that its likely true. Like any attribution, its hard to know what role pure winning, vs. local players, vs. a dynamic head coach, vs. cheap tickets, vs. the weather play in generating large crowds but I doubt anyone believes that having local players does anything but help attendance.

As for the assistant coaches, there have to be some young, hungry coaches that are looking for a raise and an opportunity to show off their abilities. Given that we likely won't be spending as much on Crews as we did on Majerus and using either the new revenues from the Big East or the last 2 tournament runs, we should have the funds available to properly pay one or two top notch assistants.

I am not arguing that we should not get a young hungry asst coach to help with recruiting only that you should not say ok hire Crews but then go get somebody to cover his short comings as a recruiter. I would love to have a young hot shot recruiter come but I just do not think you should assume it will happen and then all will be well. I am sorry but I do not buy the fact that people will come out to see local players - they will as Brian said earlier come only if we win.

[billiken_roy]

while i agree that recruiting should not be tied to local or not, i dont know if majerus gave any mind to any local recruits. and if we could have found a local player that was as good as say mike mccall, what is wrong with saying that player should have been recruited instead of mike? while i like cody ellis, there were no players between here and australia of equal or greater talent?

again, i dont want the local recruit just because he is local. but the ones that are truly as good, why arent we pursuing?

[Cowboy]

-didn't we just see that a winning team will sell out Chaifetz? the same team that has no local players?

-I am not saying don't recruit locally, I am saying recruit the best players we can land, win and attendance will be there, hopefully without Groupon or Living social

[Pistol]

while i agree that recruiting should not be tied to local or not, i dont know if majerus gave any mind to any local recruits. and if we could have found a local player that was as good as say mike mccall, what is wrong with saying that player should have been recruited instead of mike? while i like cody ellis, there were no players between here and australia of equal or greater talent?

again, i dont want the local recruit just because he is local. but the ones that are truly as good, why arent we pursuing?

Which kids do you have in mind with this question?

At a Billiken Club meeting a while back, someone asked about a couple prominent HS players (I think Young and McLemore). Majerus said he wasn't allowed to comment on any name but added he'd have to do some serious fudging of transcripts and/or SLU admissions procedures to get them into school, let alone eligible.

[billiken_roy]

Which kids do you have in mind with this question?

At a Billiken Club meeting a while back, someone asked about a couple prominent HS players (I think Young and McLemore). Majerus said he wasn't allowed to comment on any name but added he'd have to do some serious fudging of transcripts and/or SLU admissions procedures to get them into school, let alone eligible.

yet they both got into arkansas and kansas.

[kshoe]

-didn't we just see that a winning team will sell out Chaifetz? the same team that has no local players?

-I am not saying don't recruit locally, I am saying recruit the best players we can land, win and attendance will be there, hopefully without Groupon or Living social

At mid-season we were averaging 6,500 per game and people were bitching that we were coming off an NCAA tourney year and were 9-3 and we couldn't get more than 8,000 for a top 25 New Mexico team. Things obviously turned around given our great play in conference and some very attractive home game opponents in Butler and VCU but people shouldn't act like we don't have any attendance issues.

[Pistol]

yet they both got into arkansas and kansas.

You're not exactly proving him wrong.

[cheeseman]

yet they both got into arkansas and kansas.

Yes they did but you would have been the first to say - we need student athletes, why are we recruiting these kids who clearly can not cut it at SLU!. Sorry Roy you can not have both ways.

[slufanskip]

My God. Is there any subject we won't ***** about?

Someone post a naked pic of Kate Upton's breasts and I'd bet at least 1 poster would complain that they didn't have the proper silhouette when looked at in the dark with a flashlight

[Box and Won]

^

That poster would not be me.

[RiseAndGrind]

^

That poster would not be me.

[jbizzle09]

^

That poster would not be me.

This is completely inappropriate for this board. The image is far too subpar and amateurish. Mods, please ban this poster.