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Attendence

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Here's some more explanation for the good turnout under the Spoon years versus now:

1. When Spoon was hired, there was even more "buzz" on campus and around the program than when RM was hired.

2. Spoon kept Highmark and Claggett (locals) and then quickly added JUCOs and transfers to rebuild quicker than RM did. Today, the use of "prep school" and lessened the use of JUCOs and changes to NCAA rules have made it more difficult for SLU to rebuild with JUCOs and transfers.

3. Spoon was immediatly accepted by the St. Louis fans and media who were already familiar with him and his winning at SMS, plus he was a cheerleader with from the beginning, and he was hired with time to bring in his guys from the start whereas RM (though he had won more and had a greater national reputation), was hired late, downplayed expectations, said we "hung on by our fingernails that first year" and then could not bring in his first scholarship recruit after having played an entire season (with the near empty cupboard left by Brad).

4. Spoon was able to use his local players (Highmark and Claggett) to win (and win big) whereas RM implemented his style and system with his local players (Lisch and Lidell) which did not always sit well with Lidell.

5. SLU won 14 games in a row to start their season which started with high hopes whereas RM experienced bad luck as SLU had a chance to break thru but the NCAA kept CE from playing, then we lost KM for only one (1) game that year (eye injury) which resulted in a disappointing home loss to Missouri State. Still we finished with a 23 win season, CBI Finals and ready for our break-thru season.

6. SLU endured a dismissal year without WR and KM caused by the bad grades and The Situation.

7. Despite the steady, slow and solid rebuilding with quality players each year, many local St. Louis fans questioned if RM should still coach our team.

8. Finally, SLU won big last year (somewhat unexpectedly) after the most frustrating and deflating year I can recall in Billiken basketball due to The Situation.

In short, SLU fans are like like Missourians -- show me -- a winning program. After last year, attendance will finally increase.

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Interesting fact: SLU had the 9th greatest increase in attendance in the country from 2011 to 2012. 7757 per game in 2012, 6299 per gam in 2011, 1458 more fans per game in 2012. I expect another similar increase this season, especially if we are ranked in the preseason opinion polls.

Skip is correct that the vast majority of sports teams have a ton of front-running fans.

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A few people of hit the target on how complicated the problem is, although I would say that we are painting our numbers with a pretty negative brush. If this Bills team, and going forward, could manage to produce about 90% capacity through the year, with 4-5 sell outs, you would be surprised how high that would put us on the national attendance average for CBB.

My roommate goes to Baylor, a team that been in the Elite 8 two out of the last three years, their average attendance was worse then ours at about 7,400. Notre Dame- the Catholic program that every other Catholic school is trying to emulate, average attendance of 7,999...

Perhaps our numbers are not as bad as we think they are, they just look poor when compared to the odd, off-the-chart spoon numbers. If we aim to be a venue that is close capacity every night, we are going to be a program that averages very respectable numbers, more importantly, the Chaifetz was built well to make 10,000 feel like 14,000, it will make us a tougher place to play.

Muffet McGraw and the Lady Irish get more in the seats at the new Purcell Family Pavilion (nee Joyce Center) than the ND men's team...probably the same at Thompson-Boling Arena in Knoxville and at Gampel Pavillion in Storrs.

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The students were hot and cold. Some games they were great and other days they sucked.

For anybody suggesting our attendance wasn't disapointing at times, I offer this piece. I almost never agree with Burwell but he was right this one time.

http://www.stltoday....19bb30f31a.html

And for more of a national perspective, read this piece which gets into the attendance troubles everyone is having these days.

http://athleticbusin...=3883&zoneid=34

Lastly, I think attendance will be noticeably better next year as long as we continue to play well.

Had to laugh about the "stay home and watch it on the big screen" factor mentioned in your second link. That SURELY can't be a factor in SLU's attendance.

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The fact that you were correctly called out in your first thread for being a troll shows that you were schooled. Your second post reaffirms that you are a troll. It simply is factually wrong. You say no sell outs at the end of the regular season? The Xavier game was a sell out. And when has Majerus ever been "baffled" by the crowds? PHe has been consistently complimentary of the fan support and said it again in a recent interview that we would be 3rd in the conference in attendance. You're just making sh!t up. Beating up trolls is fun to do during this "lull before the season starts." :lol:

Your "troll"-detective schtick is over the top and old! Anytime someone starts off by posting an opinion you don't like, they're automatically a troll? Paranoid much? And you don't speak for the entire board. The OP has yet to demonstrate he is a troll, and he most likely never will.

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I'm back for my 2nd post.We are all entitled to our opinions.I don't feel I was "schooled" as someone said.I am trying to promote some discussion during this lull before the season starts.Why don't the home games sell out?During the Spoonball era crowds at Scottrade reached 20,000.The team this year was just as succesful,going to the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament yet an average attendence of only 7700 in a great on campus facility.This was even baffling to RM as he seemed at a loss as to why no sell-outs at the end of the regular season.One reason in my opinion is the upper deck ticket prices are way too high.Your thoughts?

You spelled gotdamn "Attendence" wrong in your subject. Modern browsers real-time spell check for you. Inexcusable. I also noticed that you don't even commit one space (let alone two) after end sentence punctuation. I can't believe that there's actually Internet access in that cave that you live in. Just terrrrrible.

Schooled.

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Complicated issue... but I can see why RM would be disappointed in the student section. I attend every game as I am in the pep band and on most nights we are the more energetic half and when there is a big crowd (Whiteout/Blueout) the two sides can never get it together... that is a whole different conversation, but I would say the general public has supported the Billikens very well considering the circumstances. Almost no one comes to Billiken games to see other teams considering we play no name schools or schools that have no significance such as Charlotte, RI, Richmond, Fordham, etc. and our non conference schedule last year (Vermont, UIS, Portland? (can't remember), etc) is not very exciting. Hopefully one day with the building of the A10 we can start to get a better non conference schedule, possibly a Mizzou game, a continuation of the New Years Eve NM game, look for a Marquette or a Memphis game, and the stronger our team gets the more likely we are to have a non conference schedule like Xavier with Vanderbilt, Tennessee, etc. This will help bring in a stronger city and campus crowd. I can honestly say last year I was not disappointed with the crowd at any games, my only disappointment was with the Slunatics...

Is 05 still enrolled in school and be leading the Slunatics?

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Is 05 still enrolled in school and be leading the Slunatics?

I would guess he is not still in school but will still be leading the Slunatics.

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Your "troll"-detective schtick is over the top and old! Anytime someone starts off by posting an opinion you don't like, they're automatically a troll? Paranoid much? And you don't speak for the entire board. The OP has yet to demonstrate he is a troll, and he most likely never will.

+1,000,000

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Your "troll"-detective schtick is over the top and old! Anytime someone starts off by posting an opinion you don't like, they're automatically a troll? Paranoid much? And you don't speak for the entire board. The OP has yet to demonstrate he is a troll, and he most likely never will.

Once again you are wrong. The first person who suspected this new poster could be a troll was For da Love. And let's face it, your ability to identify "trolls" is dreadful, and I'm being kind. The likes of powerballer and billiphan/postcard ran amok on here for years. Myself and others pointed out that they were trolls who had been banned previously and you did nothing. You were always a sucker for the story that they were simply poor, misunderstood guys who were both Mizzou and SLU fans. It wasn't until I worked with Steve to find the smoking gun on billiphab/postcard that he finally got banned from here again.

Members of this board have gotten very good at identifying and smoking out the trolls, no thanks to you. Remember when MoStateBears showed up back in March as the Bills were preparing to play in the Big Dance? He was immediately called out by many people for being previously banned postcard. I think brianstl was one of the first to jump on it. Several people were pleading to get rid of him, yet you did nothing. It wasn't until jimbo gave him a beat down for the ages the night Mizzou choked it away to Norfolk State and right after we beat Memphis, that MoStateBears completely imploded... He trashed Steve, admitted that he was postcard, got really crude and all that good stuff. Only THEN was finally purged from the board.

I don't have a problem with people having a difference of opinion. That is what makes message boards go around. What I do take issue with are people who have been previously banned before trying to sneak back in and frauds who try to represent that their opinions are coming from the perspective of a SLU fan, when they are clearly not. It's ok if you're not a SLU fan (although I don't know why somebody wouldn't be ;)) At least folks like MUTGR and brownindian are direct about where their allegiance lies. But I will call out the frauds. I have had a pretty nice track record of calling them out (joeyfluegel/triangle and too, powerballer, billiphan/postcard/MoStateBears). Name one who I incorrectly labeled a "troll"? You, on the other hand, are either blind to it or simply don't care. The main thing that seems to ruffle your feathers is when Billiken fans on a BILLIKEN board have had the audacity to refer to Mizzou as SPUMAC.

As for this new poster... we shall see. I know you're not very good at this, so let me explain why this person has raised some suspicions. A first time poster who picks an over the top pro SLU name, but then in his first two posts starts two threads critical of the program and chooses topics that have been discussed on here ad naseum. Again, time will tell, but if a chorus of board members start to identify somebody as a troll, you might want to pay attention next time. If history is any indication, odds are the members of the board can see it a lot better than you.

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Had to laugh about the "stay home and watch it on the big screen" factor mentioned in your second link. That SURELY can't be a factor in SLU's attendance.

Actually, it is a factor. Maybe even a significant factor.

It has become an issue in many sports. The Rams have been talking about it out in the open, even to civilians.

And SLU home games seem to be televised more often than the road games, too, correct? And in HD more often at home then on the road, I think, though not sure.

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yeah he's a troll. not a very good one though. the best trolls don't have their first 2 posts be completely negative and critical. they try to act normal for a while.

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Your "troll"-detective schtick is over the top and old! Anytime someone starts off by posting an opinion you don't like, they're automatically a troll? Paranoid much? And you don't speak for the entire board. The OP has yet to demonstrate he is a troll, and he most likely never will.

Has ACE ever been wrong about it though? I admit that I always don't agree when he calls people out...but over time, he's been proven right every time i can remember.

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Actually, it is a factor. Maybe even a significant factor.

It has become an issue in many sports. The Rams have been talking about it out in the open, even to civilians.

And SLU home games seem to be televised more often than the road games, too, correct? And in HD more often at home then on the road, I think, though not sure.

Yeah, you're right. I thought about that after I posted it. Yes, there ARE more home games than road televised. I forget that because I'm AT the home games. I can't speak to the HD issue.

Yep, everybody (pro and college sports teams) wants that big TV money but they also don't want empty buildings. But it's gotten too easy to stay at home. Cheaper overall, better views usually, no parking or weather hassles, eat your own snacks and food, use your own bathroom and when the game's over you're already home.

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Once again you are wrong. The first person who suspected this new poster could be a troll was For da Love. And let's face it, your ability to identify "trolls" is dreadful, and I'm being kind. The likes of powerballer and billiphan/postcard ran amok on here for years. Myself and others pointed out that they were trolls who had been banned previously and you did nothing. You were always a sucker for the story that they were simply poor, misunderstood guys who were both Mizzou and SLU fans. It wasn't until I worked with Steve to find the smoking gun on billiphab/postcard that he finally got banned from here again.

Members of this board have gotten very good at identifying and smoking out the trolls, no thanks to you. Remember when MoStateBears showed up back in March as the Bills were preparing to play in the Big Dance? He was immediately called out by many people for being previously banned postcard. I think brianstl was one of the first to jump on it. Several people were pleading to get rid of him, yet you did nothing. It wasn't until jimbo gave him a beat down for the ages the night Mizzou choked it away to Norfolk State and right after we beat Memphis, that MoStateBears completely imploded... He trashed Steve, admitted that he was postcard, got really crude and all that good stuff. Only THEN was finally purged from the board.

I don't have a problem with people having a difference of opinion. That is what makes message boards go around. What I do take issue with are people who have been previously banned before trying to sneak back in and frauds who try to represent that their opinions are coming from the perspective of a SLU fan, when they are clearly not. It's ok if you're not a SLU fan (although I don't know why somebody wouldn't be ;)) At least folks like MUTGR and brownindian are direct about where their allegiance lies. But I will call out the frauds. I have had a pretty nice track record of calling them out (joeyfluegel/triangle and too, powerballer, billiphan/postcard/MoStateBears). Name one who I incorrectly labeled a "troll"? You, on the other hand, are either blind to it or simply don't care. The main thing that seems to ruffle your feathers is when Billiken fans on a BILLIKEN board have had the audacity to refer to Mizzou as SPUMAC.

As for this new poster... we shall see. I know you're not very good at this, so let me explain why this person has raised some suspicions. A first time poster who picks an over the top pro SLU name, but then in his first two posts starts two threads critical of the program and chooses topics that have been discussed on here ad naseum. Again, time will tell, but if a chorus of board members start to identify somebody as a troll, you might want to pay attention next time. If history is any indication, odds are the members of the board can see it a lot better than you.

I never claimed you were the first. Nor do you have to be the first. Regardless, you always try to incite a mob. Your not being first to raise a complaint about the original poster's tone or method does not make me wrong. As for my "softness" of heart, I know for a lead-pipe-cold-hard fact that you're wrong about aj_arete. He IS a Billikens fan, but you just hate that he's a Mizzou fan also. I suspect that also colors your feelings about me: you can't understand how I can be a fan of both programs, and you think that makes me "soft on crime," as if being a Missouri fan is criminal. And whether you or anyone else refers to Missouri in a derogatory manner doesn't really bother me, but I do think it's gotten old. Sorry, but I really don't know anything about the MoStateBears poster you're referring to, as I was rarely on the board during that time. You're not being fair to hold any of that against me. My point is that you're too cynical or close-minded — in your mind that means you're "good" at detecting "frauds" right from the start — and it makes things tense in this online community. I think there's something to be said for giving people the benefit of the doubt. But you like to throw out a lot of mud and sometimes it sticks. Anyway, someone asked if this new poster's ip address has been used before, but it has not. It's unlikely that he is someone who's been banned and is trying to sneak back to the board. Keep "calling out" posters who you suspect is masquerading as a Billikens fan, but if I think you're wrong, then I'm going to keep calling you out as a mob-encouraging, rabble-rousing cyber-bully.

Has ACE ever been wrong about it though? I admit that I always don't agree when he calls people out...but over time, he's been proven right every time i can remember.

I don't feel strongly enough to tally specific results, but I believe he's mentioned his suspicions about new posters more than once when the poster merely had a different viewpoint. Most likely he drove the poster away and felt vindicated. ACE is little more than a cyber-bully.

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Yeah, you're right. I thought about that after I posted it. Yes, there ARE more home games than road televised. I forget that because I'm AT the home games. I can't speak to the HD issue. Yep, everybody (pro and college sports teams) wants that big TV money but they also don't want empty buildings. But it's gotten too easy to stay at home. Cheaper overall, better views usually, no parking or weather hassles, eat your own snacks and food, use your own bathroom and when the game's over you're already home.

There were 18 regular season games televised last season ,not counting post-season play. 8 home and 10 road/neutral site games. Our average attendance for the 8 non-televised home games was 7237. The average attendance for the 8 home televised games was 8276. So, we actually averaged 1039 more fans per game for the games that were televised. I don't think we can really use television as an excuse for any type of lackluster attendance figures.

That isn't to say that it might not be a factor in the future if the televison coverage for the Billikens gets expanded, and more and more home games are on TV. However, in regards to last season, there was no discernable negative impact from games being on TV, especially considering more people attended the TV home games than non-televised ones.

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as long as the crowd isn't lame enough to play "the penis game" across the arena while the game is going on it doesnt matter how many ppl there are...crowd size and effectiveness are 2 totally different factors in college bball

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I have been a Billiken fan for over 40 years. Jimmy Irving, Barry Orms, Eugene Moore, Joe Wiley, Harry Rogers, these are some of the Billiken greats I grew up watching. I don't think either of my posts have been negative. I was hoping in the last year that Malcolm Hill, Jr. and Nolan Berry would both commit to SLU like when Gray and Douglass were followed by Bonner and when Highmark, Claggett and Winfield came in and Lisch and Liddell. This isn't going to happen. I want the Billiken program to flourish as much as anyone. Anyone who says I am a " troll" is dead wrong.

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I have been a Billiken fan for over 40 years. Jimmy Irving, Barry Orms, Eugene Moore, Joe Wiley, Harry Rogers, these are some of the Billiken greats I grew up watching. I don't think either of my posts have been negative. I was hoping in the last year that Malcolm Hill, Jr. and Nolan Berry would both commit to SLU like when Gray and Douglass were followed by Bonner and when Highmark, Claggett and Winfield came in and Lisch and Liddell. This isn't going to happen. I want the Billiken program to flourish as much as anyone. Anyone who says I am a "troll" is dead wrong.

Just keep posting. Nothing will prove your innocence to those conducting witch hunts.

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Once again you are wrong. The first person who suspected this new poster could be a troll was For da Love. And let's face it, your ability to identify "trolls" is dreadful, and I'm being kind. The likes of powerballer and billiphan/postcard ran amok on here for years. Myself and others pointed out that they were trolls who had been banned previously and you did nothing. You were always a sucker for the story that they were simply poor, misunderstood guys who were both Mizzou and SLU fans. It wasn't until I worked with Steve to find the smoking gun on billiphab/postcard that he finally got banned from here again.

Members of this board have gotten very good at identifying and smoking out the trolls, no thanks to you. Remember when MoStateBears showed up back in March as the Bills were preparing to play in the Big Dance? He was immediately called out by many people for being previously banned postcard. I think brianstl was one of the first to jump on it. Several people were pleading to get rid of him, yet you did nothing. It wasn't until jimbo gave him a beat down for the ages the night Mizzou choked it away to Norfolk State and right after we beat Memphis, that MoStateBears completely imploded... He trashed Steve, admitted that he was postcard, got really crude and all that good stuff. Only THEN was finally purged from the board.

I don't have a problem with people having a difference of opinion. That is what makes message boards go around. What I do take issue with are people who have been previously banned before trying to sneak back in and frauds who try to represent that their opinions are coming from the perspective of a SLU fan, when they are clearly not. It's ok if you're not a SLU fan (although I don't know why somebody wouldn't be ;)) At least folks like MUTGR and brownindian are direct about where their allegiance lies. But I will call out the frauds. I have had a pretty nice track record of calling them out (joeyfluegel/triangle and too, powerballer, billiphan/postcard/MoStateBears). Name one who I incorrectly labeled a "troll"? You, on the other hand, are either blind to it or simply don't care. The main thing that seems to ruffle your feathers is when Billiken fans on a BILLIKEN board have had the audacity to refer to Mizzou as SPUMAC.

As for this new poster... we shall see. I know you're not very good at this, so let me explain why this person has raised some suspicions. A first time poster who picks an over the top pro SLU name, but then in his first two posts starts two threads critical of the program and chooses topics that have been discussed on here ad naseum. Again, time will tell, but if a chorus of board members start to identify somebody as a troll, you might want to pay attention next time. If history is any indication, odds are the members of the board can see it a lot better than you.

Another poster personally knows this so called "troll" and vouched for him in another thread. Yet you continue on with your Billiken McCarthyism.

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Open question to the Board. Didn't we sell 12,000 season tickets during the Spoon years? Like billiken fan forever, I am disappointed that we don't get more butts in the seats.

Again, as I have said in years past though, comparisons between Chaifetz attendance and pre-Chaifetz attendance is apples and oranges. Before Chaifetz, there was no limit on the number of tickets, there were large pools of ticket holders and several "ticket broker" loyal fans who simply bought 10 to 25 tickets to financially support the program and who then marketed the program by giving them to extended family, friends, business clients... This alone accounts for the loss of alot of the marginal fans who have been missing. In addition, significantly higher prices and mandatory donations per ticket have also had a large affect. Throw in the slower than expected rebuild of the program, the devastating events of The Sitution, the lack of local players, the long drought of NCAA appearances until last year, the mediocre/poor OOC schedule and the continued poor economy and nearly 8000 actual season ticket holders is probably not so bad.

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There were 18 regular season games televised last season ,not counting post-season play. 8 home and 10 road/neutral site games. Our average attendance for the 8 non-televised home games was 7237. The average attendance for the 8 home televised games was 8276. So, we actually averaged 1039 more fans per game for the games that were televised. I don't think we can really use television as an excuse for any type of lackluster attendance figures.

That isn't to say that it might not be a factor in the future if the televison coverage for the Billikens gets expanded, and more and more home games are on TV. However, in regards to last season, there was no discernable negative impact from games being on TV, especially considering more people attended the TV home games than non-televised ones.

Well, some of those home games that were not on TV were the buy game and lower conf opponents so making that comparison to the ones that were on TV which included X and Dayton for example is not fair. When being at the game is a happening then I agree TV or not will not matter.

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There were 18 regular season games televised last season ,not counting post-season play. 8 home and 10 road/neutral site games. Our average attendance for the 8 non-televised home games was 7237. The average attendance for the 8 home televised games was 8276. So, we actually averaged 1039 more fans per game for the games that were televised. I don't think we can really use television as an excuse for any type of lackluster attendance figures.

That isn't to say that it might not be a factor in the future if the televison coverage for the Billikens gets expanded, and more and more home games are on TV. However, in regards to last season, there was no discernable negative impact from games being on TV, especially considering more people attended the TV home games than non-televised ones.

Bizzle, I'm getting tired of you and your FACTS.

I really don't believe SLU basketball attendance is going to be adversely affected by games being televised. Most of the people there are going to go anyway, and we fill in the gaps with whoever we can pick up along the way. I'm hoping our Tournament appearance last season will drive growth on the bandwagon, and hopefully we keep it going so they stick. Because SLU basketball isn't as big a sport as, say, NFL football, I would think that any additional TV exposure will drive overall fan interest and, in time, attendance. College basketball games are a crisp two hours and a lot of fun in person. Most importantly, fans haven't been priced out of the building. SLU games are as cheap as, what, $12 at the door? Season tickets are as low as $180.

Continuing the comparison, I've reached the point where I absolutely prefer the NFL game watching experience from home and only consider attending a game if I get a free ticket. And even then I'd probably stay home. The game is built for TV, and those timeouts are excruciating at the stadium. I'd rather stay home, be able to watch any game I want, see replays, save money, drink better beer, and eat better food. But that's another argument.

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Bizzle, I'm getting tired of you and your FACTS.

I really don't believe SLU basketball attendance is going to be adversely affected by games being televised. Most of the people there are going to go anyway, and we fill in the gaps with whoever we can pick up along the way. I'm hoping our Tournament appearance last season will drive growth on the bandwagon, and hopefully we keep it going so they stick. Because SLU basketball isn't as big a sport as, say, NFL football, I would think that any additional TV exposure will drive overall fan interest and, in time, attendance. College basketball games are a crisp two hours and a lot of fun in person. Most importantly, fans haven't been priced out of the building. SLU games are as cheap as, what, $12 at the door? Season tickets are as low as $180.

Continuing the comparison, I've reached the point where I absolutely prefer the NFL game watching experience from home and only consider attending a game if I get a free ticket. And even then I'd probably stay home. The game is built for TV, and those timeouts are excruciating at the stadium. I'd rather stay home, be able to watch any game I want, see replays, save money, drink better beer, and eat better food. But that's another argument.

Ask the Chicago Blackhawks how blacking out their home games on Chicago TV worked for all of those years.

Being on TV is a great way to market the program. We should hope for every single game to be televised. Hopefully one of these years we can have a schedule where our WORST games are on a FSMW or similar and our big games are on network tv locally.

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Bizzle, I'm getting tired of you and your FACTS.

I really don't believe SLU basketball attendance is going to be adversely affected by games being televised. Most of the people there are going to go anyway, and we fill in the gaps with whoever we can pick up along the way. I'm hoping our Tournament appearance last season will drive growth on the bandwagon, and hopefully we keep it going so they stick. Because SLU basketball isn't as big a sport as, say, NFL football, I would think that any additional TV exposure will drive overall fan interest and, in time, attendance. College basketball games are a crisp two hours and a lot of fun in person. Most importantly, fans haven't been priced out of the building. SLU games are as cheap as, what, $12 at the door? Season tickets are as low as $180.

Continuing the comparison, I've reached the point where I absolutely prefer the NFL game watching experience from home and only consider attending a game if I get a free ticket. And even then I'd probably stay home. The game is built for TV, and those timeouts are excruciating at the stadium. I'd rather stay home, be able to watch any game I want, see replays, save money, drink better beer, and eat better food. But that's another argument.

I agree with this sentiment, and as MB73 touched on in his earlier post, there is a real issue for the NFL with people staying at home rather than attending games. But I don't think we will see that ever be an issue with Billiken games, or college basketball in general. The overall experience is completely different as well as the cost.

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