Couple of Notes

[brianstl]

We hired an employee and then did not give him the support to do his job. Willie would not of flunked out of Duke.

Yeah, he would have been booted long before the incident.

[slufanskip]

To be honest, my point really isn't to say that SLU should make things easier. It has been recently documented that Stanford makes it easier on its athletes, but I would assume that SLU does as well. The difference is, Stanford gets its players through. I assume that SLU does not have enough tutoring and assistance in place to help its athletes. In particular, if one player is very important to your school, then get him round the clock tutoring, make the teachers come to him. Think outside the box, and don't simply say that he should go to class. If a player does not have the academics required to survive, then find a way to get him declared learning disabled, so that you can get him extra attention. Invest time and especially money in that players education.

Prove to me that this already happens or that it cannot be allowed due to NCAA regulations.

Doesn't the kid at some point have to be responsible for his life? Most of these kids have been coddled enough. I think SLU handled Willie correctly. However, I disagree with Roy saying if Willie had made it, it would have been because SLU lowered standards. Was there no chance Willie could have buckled down and gotten it done?

By just doing whatever it takes to get them through, SLU would be setting these kids up to be failures in life.

[slufanskip]

We hired an employee and then did not give him the support to do his job. Willie would not of flunked out of Duke.

Support? Does Willie not have to participate? What level of support is enough?

[JMM28]

To be honest, my point really isn't to say that SLU should make things easier. It has been recently documented that Stanford makes it easier on its athletes, but I would assume that SLU does as well. The difference is, Stanford gets its players through. I assume that SLU does not have enough tutoring and assistance in place to help its athletes. In particular, if one player is very important to your school, then get him round the clock tutoring, make the teachers come to him. Think outside the box, and don't simply say that he should go to class. If a player does not have the academics required to survive, then find a way to get him declared learning disabled, so that you can get him extra attention. Invest time and especially money in that players education.

Prove to me that this already happens or that it cannot be allowed due to NCAA regulations.

Willie is lazy. Period. We heard that his freshman year on the basketball court, and later about his academic issues.

If he were 5'8", he would already be warming up burgers at McDonalds in KC.

Basketball players have tons of advantages over regular students. They have their own tutors, preference in scheduling(all athletes), their own private study areas, and if I am not mistaken traveling tutors/teachers.

And seriously, it isn't like he was taking organic chemistry or in the BME program.

The only person Willie Reed has to blame is himself.

[For-DaLove]

Great post above me.

To those who are trying to blame the university: Were all the other things Willie did to get in trouble SLU's fault as well?

[For-DaLove]

We hired an employee and then did not give him the support to do his job. Willie would not of flunked out of Duke.

Duke would never recruit someone like him anyways. Too much baggage from high school.

[1SLUFAN]

Willie is lazy. Period. We heard that his freshman year on the basketball court, and later about his academic issues.

If he were 5'8", he would already be warming up burgers at McDonalds in KC.

Basketball players have tons of advantages over regular students. They have their own tutors, preference in scheduling(all athletes), their own private study areas, and if I am not mistaken traveling tutors/teachers.

And seriously, it isn't like he was taking organic chemistry or in the BME program.

The only person Willie Reed has to blame is himself.

Amen! Amen! Willie is not a dog that was merely being trained to jump on command, he is a human being with hopefully a long life ahead of him. He and all student athletes have a responsibility to themselves to take advantage of the opportunity to get a good education and a great university so that they can live long and productive lives in a very tough society!

[jimbofive]

this is a very good post slu72. while it is extremely disappointing that we lost one of the best if not the best inside player slu has had in a couple of decades, i think it is refreshing to know that saint louis universtiy hasnt lowered itself to a level that our athletes are just there as athletes and are required to be students and citizens. imo saint louis university did the right things dealing with willie reed and if anything went far and beyond expectations with him.

a certain regular poster here (who shall remain anonomous, he knows who he is) had an exchange with me early last season outside the parking garage after a game and he assured me that first game second semester willie reed would be back. i told him impossible. willie reed had serious issues some of them academic and if willie reed was back as he predicted, that would only show that saint louis university had become just another D1 school that cared more about their basketball team than their students and would do whatever was necessary regardless of rules and ethics to have success.

i have to be honest that in the back of my mind i was questioning if slu would stand up for what was right or what would win basketball games. i say we did the right thing. yes it set our basketball program back. but in the long run, we as alumni, boosters and fans of school and the billikens can be proud that slu did the right thing unlike far too many other "academic institutions".

agree wholeheartedly. SLU didn't fail willie. willie was lazy.

you're a star basketball player. you don't have a job. you have six responsibilities, period.

go to class.

go to the cafeteria.

get swole.

run a lot.

shoot a lot of free throws.

crush ass.

i hope he crushed a lot of ass, because he sure as didn't do any of the others.

[willie]

Willie is lazy. Period. We heard that his freshman year on the basketball court, and later about his academic issues.

If he were 5'8", he would already be warming up burgers at McDonalds in KC.

Basketball players have tons of advantages over regular students. They have their own tutors, preference in scheduling(all athletes), their own private study areas, and if I am not mistaken traveling tutors/teachers.

And seriously, it isn't like he was taking organic chemistry or in the BME program.

The only person Willie Reed has to blame is himself.

Did he have tutors and scheduling support this semester??

[Box and Won]

Unless things have dramatically changed in the last 15-20 years, basketball players at SLU have huge advantageous given to them. I won't get into details, but it would certainly surprise the self-righteous crowd on this board.

This. I can't imagine things are significantly different now.

[HusakAttack]

agree wholeheartedly. SLU didn't fail willie. willie was lazy.

you're a star basketball player. you don't have a job. you have six responsibilities, period.

go to class.

go to the cafeteria.

get swole.

run a lot.

shoot a lot of free throws.

crush ass.

i hope he crushed a lot of ass, because he sure as ###### didn't do any of the others.

+1

[billiken_roy]

Did he have tutors and scheduling support this semester??

willie, let's back up. as an employee/employer relationship which you want to turn this into, how many employer's would have not fired permanently their employee that committed all the non "incident" acts he did while an employee?

second, dont forget that willie was never reinstated to the basketball team that would have afforded him the tutors and scheduling and study support. for that, he can only blame himself. quite honestly i cannot think of a an honest program that would have turned their heads for willie's entire body of work prior to the incident. he should have been expelled at minimum after his summer incidents with no return imo.

[For-DaLove]

willie, let's back up. as an employee/employer relationship which you want to turn this into, how many employer's would have not fired permanently their employee that committed all the non "incident" acts he did while an employee?

second, dont forget that willie was never reinstated to the basketball team that would have afforded him the tutors and scheduling and study support. for that, he can only blame himself. quite honestly i cannot think of a an honest program that would have turned their heads for willie's entire body of work prior to the incident. he should have been expelled at minimum after his summer incidents with no return imo.

Good post.

I know of 2 or 3 separate incidents that would have gotten a non-athlete expelled or at the very least in some serious trouble.

[brianstl]

Good post.

I know of 2 or 3 separate incidents that would have gotten a non-athlete expelled or at the very least in some serious trouble.

Plus, he was going to let the blame get pinned on KM for one of his pre-incident incidents and he threw KM under a bus in a TV interview after the school made it's ruling on the incident.

Willie got a pass on a ton of things that would have got him booted from many programs.

[willie]

willie, let's back up. as an employee/employer relationship which you want to turn this into, how many employer's would have not fired permanently their employee that committed all the non "incident" acts he did while an employee?

second, dont forget that willie was never reinstated to the basketball team that would have afforded him the tutors and scheduling and study support. for that, he can only blame himself. quite honestly i cannot think of a an honest program that would have turned their heads for willie's entire body of work prior to the incident. he should have been expelled at minimum after his summer incidents with no return imo.

Everybody talks about his body of work. What was his body of work? I would like to know what those crimes were. Students do stupit ######. If I hire a good salesman and he,s good at sales but screws up in his personal life I need to help him get through his problem. Give him help to succeed not probation. Unless someone tells me elsewise we gave him probation without help.

[Clock_Tower]

How long are we going to protect WR? He did NOT leave the program b/c of The Situation. While the Situation did not help, KM is proof that WR is not gone b/c of The Situation alone. If we are going to allow unfounded shots at SLU (from the administration to the faculty to the coaches), then why not remove the gag orders of this Board and let us post all that WR actually did to get into the mess he created for himself. Who are we protecting? WR is no longer a student, player... I, for one, am not subject to SLU's Code of Conduct and not under the federal student privacy laws keeping SLU from responding and/or releasing what Paul Harvey would say "the rest of the story."

[JamminJamalJohnson]

We hired an employee and then did not give him the support to do his job. Willie would not of flunked out of Duke.

Because he wasn't anywhere near good enough to play there.

Why we make such a fuss over a player who routinely got bounced out of the lane by stronger players and couldn't throw the ball into the ocean from a few feet away is crazy.

[willie]

How long are we going to protect WR? He did NOT leave the program b/c of The Situation. While the Situation did not help, KM is proof that WR is not gone b/c of The Situation alone. If we are going to allow unfounded shots at SLU (from the administration to the faculty to the coaches), then why not remove the gag orders of this Board and let us post all that WR actually did to get into the mess he created for himself. Who are we protecting? WR is no longer a student, player... I, for one, am not subject to SLU's Code of Conduct and not under the federal student privacy laws keeping SLU from responding and/or releasing what Paul Harvey would say "the rest of the story."

So what is the story?

[For-DaLove]

Plus, he was going to let the blame get pinned on KM for one of his pre-incident incidents and he threw KM under a bus in a TV interview after the school made it's ruling on the incident.

Willie got a pass on a ton of things that would have got him booted from many programs.

Exactly! He was a terrible teammate! The players aren't sad he's gone.

[For-DaLove]

So what is the story?

Theft, academic dishonesty, etc, etc...

If a mod wants to delete this, that's fine, I completely understand. But Ive gotten tired of all the people who defend all the bull**** Willie did in his time here when they really don't know what happened.

[willie]

Theft, academic dishonesty, etc, etc...

If a mod wants to delete this, that's fine, I completely understand. But Ive gotten tired of all the people who defend all the bull**** Willie did in his time here when they really don't know what happened.

Someone sent me a pm with a long list. I must admitt it is a long list. But I still say if you allowed him back he should have been given a tutor.

[slufan13]

Someone sent me a pm with a long list. I must admitt it is a long list. But I still say if you allowed him back he should have been given a tutor.

why should he have been given a tutor? he wasn't a member of the basketball team.

i don't know if this is true, but it seems to me like willie had every chance to get through this. willie was going to be academically ineligible for the 1st semester this past year anyway and he had a tutor and all the resources the athletic department could give him. willie probably had old tests to study off of, people to help him with writing papers, people to help him with homework and he still wasn't going to make the grades. he had previous incidents that he tried to blame on teammates and other people.

i know willie is a good player. i know we need a good big man and he could bring us to the ncaa tournament. but personally im almost glad that he won't be playing for us anymore. i want us to win just as much as anyone and my post may seem harsh, but all of willie's problems were just getting too old.

[Billikan]

Someone sent me a pm with a long list. I must admitt it is a long list. But I still say if you allowed him back he should have been given a tutor.

I try to avoid these type of discussions because they have trolls like anklebreakers just lying about things and then people debate the lies. Willie got a fair shake and a full second chance after he did a lot of things that were questionable. The school has always taken the high road. To suggest that Willie was not offered and given tutoring help is absolutely ridiculous. We have great academic support folks and if the players cooperate and participate they will get a lot of help.

[billiken_roy]

Someone sent me a pm with a long list. I must admitt it is a long list. But I still say if you allowed him back he should have been given a tutor.

i think where we differ is "allowed back". you think just being readmitted to saint louis university = being reinstated to the basketball team. he never was accepted back to the basketball team. the basketball team is where he would have gotten his perks.

[willie]

i think where we differ is "allowed back". you think just being readmitted to saint louis university = being reinstated to the basketball team. he never was accepted back to the basketball team. the basketball team is where he would have gotten his perks.

He was allowed back because he was a basketball player. He was not paying his own tuition.