NCAA Releases Last Years Attendance Numbers

[courtside]

If the Blues put out a much better product, they can raise prices and people will pay, both corporate and Joe fan. I think Checkettes is great on radio and positively aggressive in the community, but at some point, the product needs to be much better in order to charge higher prices. Checketts knew and knows that with little money and the inability to produce higher profile "in their prime" stars, he won't have any fans if he charged more. Imo this has worked because Checketts is to some extent inexplicably disproportionately popular despite not yet producing on the ice. Blues are trying to maintain a strong loyal fan base and build it. Until they get a a big money investor, they don't have much choice in their approach. Example: As a consumer, or casual consumer of the Blues or any product, I'd be much more loyal to a business with a step up pricing approach than a step down approach. I think Footes was too quick to sweep the adjustments under the rug as water under the bridge. It is not good pr to overprice a less valued product. It's much harder to come back from that as opposed to more affordable pricing and raising in incremental fashion as the product warrants. I know plenty of people who for example were turned off by SLU's pricing and haven't been back even after adjustments have been made.

Btw...on a separate note...Marquette has pretty similar pricing to SLU, with more quantity of value seats upstairs do to the larger capacity. Imo SLU has "the going" rate pricing compared to many higher profile and better result programs even since the adjustments. I don't believe the results have justified the pricing. And, to some extent people have spoken with their dollars. I would also add everyone knows the poor marketing and pr etc...which doesn't help.

Duke is for an example and exception school because they can and do charge a lot of money for some of their seats and in return produce quite a bit in event experience and on court success.

[kwyjibo]

Our trend line was definitely up at the end of the season. Would expect this to increase by around 2k next season.

There is always next year . . . .

But the reality is that despite years of being told by people on this list that an arena would magically generate dozens more wins per season, permanent euphoria of anyone within a 3 mile radius, 9 foot tall recruits who can jump 80 inches, and 1000% student attendance breaking all known excitement levels recent attendance levels have not been maintained (nevermind going back to a time when SLU was one of the top supported NCAA teams).

The fact remains that SLU had an average attendance this last season that was less than any season since 90-91 (which was only that low because it was the last season at old Kiel). That's right, Grawer's last season, with a team in shambles, playing in a "temporary" home, managing only 5 wins drew more people. Comparisons to low attendance teams in the Southland conference are not the point.

I do think ticket pricing is a relevant and important issue (and if anyone has data on average ticket price for the last 20-30 years I would love to see it). But that issue cuts both ways (one of most fascinating implications about pro ticket policies that attempt to max short run revenue is that you lose fans who are likely to be louder, happier, and more committed to the team in the long run).

[kevinfootes]

There is always next year . . . .

But the reality is that despite years of being told by people on this list that an arena would magically generate dozens more wins per season, permanent euphoria of anyone within a 3 mile radius, 9 foot tall recruits who can jump 80 inches, and 1000% student attendance breaking all known excitement levels recent attendance levels have not been maintained (nevermind going back to a time when SLU was one of the top supported NCAA teams).

The fact remains that SLU had an average attendance this last season that was less than any season since 90-91 (which was only that low because it was the last season at old Kiel). That's right, Grawer's last season, with a team in shambles, playing in a "temporary" home, managing only 5 wins drew more people. Comparisons to low attendance teams in the Southland conference are not the point.

I do think ticket pricing is a relevant and important issue (and if anyone has data on average ticket price for the last 20-30 years I would love to see it). But that issue cuts both ways (one of most fascinating implications about pro ticket policies that attempt to max short run revenue is that you lose fans who are likely to be louder, happier, and more committed to the team in the long run).

For what it's worth, wasn't Grawer's last season 91-92? And they played his last year at the Arena.

I agree with much of your basic point. Yes, we were told by some that playing on campus would create better attendance and get us better times and dates for games. As I've stated on here many times, I've been disappointed with the attendance at Chaifetz. However it is a good venue, and the practice facility (which was far and away the most important thing the program needed) should lead to better recruitng and better results.

The reasons for so-so attendance have been established on here, but let's hope things will improve moving forward.

[kwyjibo]

For what it's worth, wasn't Grawer's last season 91-92? And they played his last year at the Arena.

I agree with much of your basic point. Yes, we were told by some that playing on campus would create better attendance and get us better times and dates for games. As I've stated on here many times, I've been disappointed with the attendance at Chaifetz. However it is a good venue, and the practice facility (which was far and away the most important thing the program needed) should lead to better recruitng and better results.

The reasons for so-so attendance have been established on here, but let's hope things will improve moving forward.

Sorry I was not clear. Yes, the 91-92 season described above was what I was talking about as having better attendance. Frankly, it is a real credit for those fans for showing up in those kind of numbers that season.

[kevinfootes]

Sorry I was not clear. Yes, the 91-92 season described above was what I was talking about as having better attendance. Frankly, it is a real credit for those fans for showing up in those kind of numbers that season.

I was there when Mac Irvin quit during the middle of a game.

[courtside]

Sorry I was not clear. Yes, the 91-92 season described above was what I was talking about as having better attendance. Frankly, it is a real credit for those fans for showing up in those kind of numbers that season.

Having the new facilities has value in many areas. It gets and keeps SLU in the game of recruiting. Other places have the facilities, so SLU needed them to be competitive from that standpoint, and recruiting is on an upswing.

People have come on this board to complain about some of the empty lower middle sections at Chaifetz. Price matters. Playing in a new league and taking time to build rivalries in a new league matters. Having been "down" in terms of competitive play matters. Lots of things go into attendance. It isn't simply build it and they will come. But make no mistake about it, SLU would be much worse off without the facilities. People who thought build an Arena and everything's fixed don't get it, Biondi included.

[GOSLU68]

For what it's worth, wasn't Grawer's last season 91-92? And they played his last year at the Arena.

I agree with much of your basic point. Yes, we were told by some that playing on campus would create better attendance and get us better times and dates for games. As I've stated on here many times, I've been disappointed with the attendance at Chaifetz. However it is a good venue, and the practice facility (which was far and away the most important thing the program needed) should lead to better recruitng and better results.

The reasons for so-so attendance have been established on here, but let's hope things will improve moving forward.

poor attendance of the last year can only be because the out of conference opponents were lacking any value to most casual fans; the poor economy; and finally, neither the coach nor the local media have tried to capitalize on the stength and marketability of playing better quality A10 opponents.

Give us teams such as Air Force on the OOC schedule home games. Find some teams that have gate appeal and stick with them instead of teams we

have never played before

[kevinfootes]

poor attendance of the last year can only be because the out of conference opponents were lacking any value to most casual fans; the poor economy; and finally, neither the coach nor the local media have tried to capitalize on the stength and marketability of playing better quality A10 opponents.

Give us teams such as Air Force on the OOC schedule home games. Find some teams that have gate appeal and stick with them instead of teams we

have never played before

The problem is that teams with "name appeal" won't likely be buy games.

[Clock_Tower]

Our recent poor attendance has really been a mystery to me. Clearly there is a real disconnent with the casual Billiken fan. The attendance numbers speak volumes. Reasons are many. In addition to those listed above in this thread, parking/long walks is a factor compared to the the convenient/covered parking garage at Kiel/Savvis/Scottrade. So too is the lack of local recruits (hundreds of people came to see what Highmark, Winfield, Claggett and Bickel could do), lack of good/positive PR and radio/TV spots (SLU knows how to do and did it quite well during the CBI -- RM, May and Moser), and the season ticket points/format change (many group holders would financially support the program with the purchase of double the number of tickets they really needed and they would recruit, stir-up interest or give away tickets to their extended families and friends for the bigger games).

Chaveitz has clearly increased student interest/attendance but not enough to offset the above.

We diehards follow the program so closely. We see the dramatic change in recruiting. We seen RM outcoach nearly every team we play. We see Frosh and Sophs outplay upperclassmen on other teams. Still, I have had casual fans come up to me each year since RM has been and ask questions like. "What's going on at SLU - going in the right direction?" or "Do the players not like playing for RM?" or "I thought things would have gotten better under RM". My first instinct is to say: Do you have no clue? Do you not follow the program at all? Do you not see how good KM and WR have already developed into during their Soph year? Do you not know that CE is about ready to start playing for us?

Anyone else experience this disconnect?

[normanorr]

Let's go Ramblers!!!

[bonwich]

Two anecdotes about team visibility from a recent trip to NYC. I always bring two or three Billiken shirts to wear when I'm walking around the city.

Two weeks ago I was in the SeaStreak ferry terminal in Highlands, NJ. Unless there's a ferry arrival or departure, there's nothing there. We were waiting for the boat back to Manhattan and a guy came up and wanted to tell me he knew what a Billiken was, then went into a long story about how his team played us 20-some years ago and he called the athletic department and they couldn't tell him exactly what a Billiken was. (Clearly, this was before Steve started running the website -- and perhaps even before Steve was born. .) Anyway, the guy then launched into how he'd heard that Majerus was about to turn the corner and had brought in all kinds of great players.

On a much briefer basis, I was walking through Tribeca when a group of middle-aged adults complimented my shirt and yelled that they'd heard that we might really have something next year. (I asked them if they were from St. Louis, and they said no, they were from New York. Not enough time to do a focus group to see why they were so positive about our beloved Bills. Perhaps they were simply from Buffalo and very confused.)

Anyway, the obvious lesson is: Represent. Whenever you can. Wherever you go.

[strozier]

On a much briefer basis, I was walking through Tribeca when a group of middle-aged adults complimented my shirt and yelled that they'd heard that we might really have something next year.

Was that Bob De Niro? Nobody yells in Tribeca except De Niro.

[slufanskip]

Two anecdotes about team visibility from a recent trip to NYC. I always bring two or three Billiken shirts to wear when I'm walking around the city.

Two weeks ago I was in the SeaStreak ferry terminal in Highlands, NJ. Unless there's a ferry arrival or departure, there's nothing there. We were waiting for the boat back to Manhattan and a guy came up and wanted to tell me he knew what a Billiken was, then went into a long story about how his team played us 20-some years ago and he called the athletic department and they couldn't tell him exactly what a Billiken was. (Clearly, this was before Steve started running the website -- and perhaps even before Steve was born. .) Anyway, the guy then launched into how he'd heard that Majerus was about to turn the corner and had brought in all kinds of great players.

On a much briefer basis, I was walking through Tribeca when a group of middle-aged adults complimented my shirt and yelled that they'd heard that we might really have something next year. (I asked them if they were from St. Louis, and they said no, they were from New York. Not enough time to do a focus group to see why they were so positive about our beloved Bills. Perhaps they were simply from Buffalo and very confused.)

Anyway, the obvious lesson is: Represent. Whenever you can. Wherever you go.

Are you going by how old Steve looks or how old he actually is. I think there is about a 6-7 year separation as he still looks like a HS kid to me.

[bonwich]

Are you going by how old Steve looks or how old he actually is. I think there is about a 6-7 year separation as he still looks like a HS kid to me.

You haven't seen him with his tweed jacket and his pipe.

[slufanskip]

You haven't seen him with his tweed jacket and his pipe.

Once they become Ivy Leaguers I'm sure the tweed jacket and pipe are required tools of the trade.

[knockahoma]

Once they become Ivy Leaguers I'm sure the tweed jacket and pipe are required tools of the trade.

Do they still have dinner clubs at the ivies? I like that idea.

[GOSLU68]

Two anecdotes about team visibility from a recent trip to NYC. I always bring two or three Billiken shirts to wear when I'm walking around the city.

Two weeks ago I was in the SeaStreak ferry terminal in Highlands, NJ. Unless there's a ferry arrival or departure, there's nothing there. We were waiting for the boat back to Manhattan and a guy came up and wanted to tell me he knew what a Billiken was, then went into a long story about how his team played us 20-some years ago and he called the athletic department and they couldn't tell him exactly what a Billiken was. (Clearly, this was before Steve started running the website -- and perhaps even before Steve was born. .) Anyway, the guy then launched into how he'd heard that Majerus was about to turn the corner and had brought in all kinds of great players.

On a much briefer basis, I was walking through Tribeca when a group of middle-aged adults complimented my shirt and yelled that they'd heard that we might really have something next year. (I asked them if they were from St. Louis, and they said no, they were from New York. Not enough time to do a focus group to see why they were so positive about our beloved Bills. Perhaps they were simply from Buffalo and very confused.)

Anyway, the obvious lesson is: Represent. Whenever you can. Wherever you go.

People on this board think playing Fordham doesn't count for much; remember the NY Times article on the current level of competition at Fordham. Soon we will have three (3) supreme court justices from the

five (5) boroughs of New York City, New York. No other losing teams got that much space in the times.

Some things are just weighted in the favor of the original 13 colonies. I am a midwesterner.

[strozier]

People on this board think playing Fordham doesn't count for much; remember the NY Times article on the current level of competition at Fordham. Soon we will have three (3) supreme court justices from the

five (5) boroughs of New York City, New York. No other losing teams got that much space in the times.

Some things are just weighted in the favor of the original 13 colonies. I am a midwesterner.

Thomas and Scalia are Jesuit educated as well.

[GoBills]

There is always next year . . . .

But the reality is that despite years of being told by people on this list that an arena would magically generate dozens more wins per season, permanent euphoria of anyone within a 3 mile radius, 9 foot tall recruits who can jump 80 inches, and 1000% student attendance breaking all known excitement levels recent attendance levels have not been maintained (nevermind going back to a time when SLU was one of the top supported NCAA teams).

The fact remains that SLU had an average attendance this last season that was less than any season since 90-91 (which was only that low because it was the last season at old Kiel). That's right, Grawer's last season, with a team in shambles, playing in a "temporary" home, managing only 5 wins drew more people. Comparisons to low attendance teams in the Southland conference are not the point.

I do think ticket pricing is a relevant and important issue (and if anyone has data on average ticket price for the last 20-30 years I would love to see it). But that issue cuts both ways (one of most fascinating implications about pro ticket policies that attempt to max short run revenue is that you lose fans who are likely to be louder, happier, and more committed to the team in the long run).

The time SLU was one of the top supported NCAA teams was really an anamoly during the 40 years I have been going to games. The reality is that we are talking about a program that has only been to the NCAA Tournament 4 times in 50 plus years. It's pretty difficult to build a rabid fan following with that type of performance. Now the die-hards like myself and probably most others on this board, will always stick with the program, but it takes more on court success to increase attendance.

The hand-wringing about the attendance is way overblown. Attendance is quite impressive for a program that has not been to the NCAA Tournament in a decade. And in the previous decade, SLU has gone from a more high profile to a less high profile program. And frankly, some of the Soderberg years were boring. Attendance began to erode. Last year it was ranked in the 70s and would have been better without the CBI games, that is not bad at all for a program with our history. Not much was expected of last year's young team. They did not got off to a great start. A big early season win over somebody like Notre Dame would have generated some buzz, but that did not happen. Once Cody Ellis arrived, the team strung some wins together and the local media began to take notice, then attendance went up. I think this will set the stage for more anticipation heading into next year, which should result in better early season attendance. Now the team will also have to get off to a good start to capitalize on the increased expectations.

I am not sure who made these promises to you regarding the Arena, but I think it is starting to accomplish exactly what I thought it would do. First of all, the facilities helped attract Majerus. He pointed that out when he was hired, going so far as to say he would not have taken the job without the new building. It also is a much more attractive building for recruits. We clearly have seen some results on that front. Finally, there is no question it has generated increased student attendance and enthusiasm. This past season was the best I remember in my 40 years in Billikenland. This is about building the future. We will be producing more alums who have good connections and experiences with Billiken basketball, and they will be the fans/boosters of tomorrow.

Regarding that 1990-91 season, it turned into a disaster, but there was a lot of optimism heading into that season with a strong recruiting class. Even more importantly, the program was less than two years removed, from making their second consecutive NIT Final. The program had reached a solid level of on court success which resulted in a good fan following. I can tell you, as the team started to unravel late in the season, there were a LOT of empty seats. The actual attendance was a lot less than tickets sold. That is likely another factor in the disparity between then and now. They count attendance differently now.

[Runnin'Billiken]

Two anecdotes about team visibility from a recent trip to NYC. I always bring two or three Billiken shirts to wear when I'm walking around the city.

Two weeks ago I was in the SeaStreak ferry terminal in Highlands, NJ. Unless there's a ferry arrival or departure, there's nothing there. We were waiting for the boat back to Manhattan and a guy came up and wanted to tell me he knew what a Billiken was, then went into a long story about how his team played us 20-some years ago and he called the athletic department and they couldn't tell him exactly what a Billiken was. (Clearly, this was before Steve started running the website -- and perhaps even before Steve was born. .) Anyway, the guy then launched into how he'd heard that Majerus was about to turn the corner and had brought in all kinds of great players.

On a much briefer basis, I was walking through Tribeca when a group of middle-aged adults complimented my shirt and yelled that they'd heard that we might really have something next year. (I asked them if they were from St. Louis, and they said no, they were from New York. Not enough time to do a focus group to see why they were so positive about our beloved Bills. Perhaps they were simply from Buffalo and very confused.)

Anyway, the obvious lesson is: Represent. Whenever you can. Wherever you go.

Good story Bonwich. Runnin' is moving to Atlanta for the summer on Sunday, and you better believe midtown ATL is gonna be seeing a lot of Billiken Tees until August.