New Atlantic 10

[milwaukeebill]

I know little about conference changes as I never really paid attention when my team growing, Marquette, changing conferences until the Big East swithc and even then I really didn't know many of the affects or factors.

My question is how do non-revenue sports affect conference realignment?

I assume that factor is behind our market location, revenue sports facilities, academics, religious affiliation and other already discussed factors.

Would the new big east or new atlantic ten or a new midwest/eastern private school conference take into account our top 25 soccer program and the national championships and history we bring to them? or our up and coming Volleyball team? or even a more southern baseball team which i think is on the rise that would provide a recruiting base more southern then any other team? our other sports are middling or sometimes terrible (see track and field, field hockey).

how much pull do these sports have for future conferences?

[cheeseman]

I know little about conference changes as I never really paid attention when my team growing, Marquette, changing conferences until the Big East swithc and even then I really didn't know many of the affects or factors.

My question is how do non-revenue sports affect conference realignment?

I assume that factor is behind our market location, revenue sports facilities, academics, religious affiliation and other already discussed factors.

Would the new big east or new atlantic ten or a new midwest/eastern private school conference take into account our top 25 soccer program and the national championships and history we bring to them? or our up and coming Volleyball team? or even a more southern baseball team which i think is on the rise that would provide a recruiting base more southern then any other team? our other sports are middling or sometimes terrible (see track and field, field hockey).

how much pull do these sports have for future conferences?

Those are minor issues - they can be a tie breaker or a secondary reason - money will rule this decision and that means TV revenue. While we are not a marque market we still are in the top 20 last I looked so that will carry some weight.

[Clock_Tower]

I do not see much of this happening- it would be most surpising to me to see the Pac-10 take Boise State. Boise State has obviously excelled on the gridiron, but Boise State was once a junior college. Although San Diego State might be a 4th or 5th choice for the Pac-10, the Pac-10 already saturates that market with UCLA and USC only 90-100 miles up the road. And it would be a shock to see Fresno State added to the Pac-10. I'm not sure how much this guy knows about the West Coast pecking order. Does he really think Stanford and Cal in Northern California, and USC and UCLA in Southern California, are going to let Fresno State into the Pac-10?

Utah seems to be in most Pac-10 expansion discussions.

I also do not see SLU being left behind this group of A-10, call them survivors. Nor do I see this Big Atlantic, or a surviving ACC, taking non-football playing schools.

The writer of this article is from the Newark, NJ newspaper, and it looks like the guy is trying to place Rutgers and Seton Hall. in Newark's backyard.

I could see DePaul and Marquette utlimately landing in the A-10, but not SLU being excluded from the A-10, of which it already belongs, that is unless SLU wants out, and we've seen no signals of that from the Administration upward.

BAB.

Do you see Texas as a real possibility to joing the PAC10? What's the left coast of such a move. Sure, there would probably be at least one other Texas school and Colorado is already in the Big 12, but I just not see it.

If Texas doesn't get what it wants, and if the Big 12 really gets picked over, I see Texas leaving for the SEC.

[BLIKNS]

Could Texas compete in the SEC??

(just kidding of course they could),just wanting to see if that got a reaction.

Really we should just in feet first and start talking to Dayton,X,Marquette,DePaul,and Butler and try to form some alignment NOW.

[JettFlight5]

we got to get out of this geography is most important mindset. imo like institutions is the absolute most important thing.

good point Roy...nobody in college sports owns a map anymore.

[Bay Area Billiken]

BAB.

Do you see Texas as a real possibility to joing the PAC10? What's the left coast of such a move. Sure, there would probably be at least one other Texas school and Colorado is already in the Big 12, but I just not see it.

If Texas doesn't get what it wants, and if the Big 12 really gets picked over, I see Texas leaving for the SEC.

There has been talk in the past re Texas and the Pac-10. However, I don't see that happening.

I think Colorado to the Pac-10 is more likely than Texas. There was a report that 24 football players on the Colorado roster are from California. Colorado has a significant number of students from California.

When news of Pac-10 expansion first broke, the first 2 schools mentioned were Utah (which has been on most of the lists of expandees) and BYU. Colorado may have replaced BYU in the Top 2 on the list. I know Colorado football is playing Cal in Berkeley this coming season. Numbers 4 and 5 were San Diego State and UNLV. There has been some talk re Boise State, but I am a Doubting Thomas on that one.

In this latest round of dominos, there is more talk about Texas and Texas A&M and the SEC, where they would be reunited with old rival Arkansas. Or they may just stay put in the Big XII, where Texas seems to have it pretty good.

[Bay Area Billiken]

BAB.

Do you see Texas as a real possibility to joing the PAC10? What's the left coast of such a move. Sure, there would probably be at least one other Texas school and Colorado is already in the Big 12, but I just not see it.

If Texas doesn't get what it wants, and if the Big 12 really gets picked over, I see Texas leaving for the SEC.

The other thing is that the states of California and Texas do not exactly get along politically speaking. They are rivals in business and politics.

On the other hand, the old maxim is that politics makes strange bedfellows.

[kevinfootes]

The other thing is that the states of California and Texas do not exactly get along politically speaking. They are rivals in business and politics.

On the other hand, the old maxim is that politics makes strange bedfellows.

If TV and money are the driving forces, I'm not sure putting any team in the central time zone in the Pac 10 would be ideal. Texas is obvisoulsy a golden TV market, and not having road basketball games start until 9 PM or later would not be great. I agree wtih whoever suggested that the SEC could be a better destiantion for TExas.

[Bay Area Billiken]

If TV and money are the driving forces, I'm not sure putting any team in the central time zone in the Pac 10 would be ideal. Texas is obvisoulsy a golden TV market, and not having road basketball games start until 9 PM or later would not be great. I agree wtih whoever suggested that the SEC could be a better destiantion for TExas.

Agreed. With Utah and Colorado being in the Mountain Time Zone, there is only a 1 hour time difference, as oppposed to 2 with Texas.

I know some say geography no longer matters, but I think it does in the case of Texas and the Pac-10. That's at least a 3 hour flight from California, longer from the Great Northwest. Also, geography was a negative in the earlier Texas to the Big Ten talk, which appears to be on the backburner.

Re Colorado, there has been some thought re Colorado having more in common with the Pac-10 than with the Big XII.

Colorado and Utah bring with them the Denver and Salt Lake City TV markets.

[kevinfootes]

Agreed. With Utah and Colorado being in the Mountain Time Zone, there is only a 1 hour time difference, as oppposed to 2 with Texas.

I know some say geography no longer matters, but I think it does in the case of Texas and the Pac-10. That's at least a 3 hour flight from California, longer from the Great Northwest. Also, geography was a negative in the earlier Texas to the Big Ten talk, which appears to be on the backburner.

Re Colorado, there has been some thought re Colorado having more in common with the Pac-10 than with the Big XII.

Colorado and Utah bring with them the Denver and Salt Lake City TV markets.

The flip side of my point is that Texas wouldn't be able to start home basketball games before 8 PM at the earliest. On the other hand, Denver and SLC are probably 25% the size of Dallas and Houston, and that doesn't even count San Antonio, Austin, etc. I guess you never know, but IMO the SEC would be better for Texas.

That said, there is an arrogance existing at Texas. That's why the SWC fell apart. That league should have been expandingt o protect Arkansas, but didn't think it was necessary. Texas likes calling the shots, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were content returning to a league that was for the most part Texas based. If Mizzou would leave the Big 12, Texas and the rest would probably be okay with adding TCU and calling it a day. If they wanted to go beyond 12, New Mexico, Colorado St, and maybe even Memphis or Tulsa could fit. While the overall conference might slip, there would be less pressure to play championship tournies and games outside the state of Texas. It's been my experience that Texans don't think they need outsiders.

[slufanskip]

The flip side of my point is that Texas wouldn't be able to start home basketball games before 8 PM at the earliest. On the other hand, Denver and SLC are probably 25% the size of Dallas and Houston, and that doesn't even count San Antonio, Austin, etc. I guess you never know, but IMO the SEC would be better for Texas.

That said, there is an arrogance existing at Texas. That's why the SWC fell apart. That league should have been expandingt o protect Arkansas, but didn't think it was necessary. Texas likes calling the shots, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were content returning to a league that was for the most part Texas based. If Mizzou would leave the Big 12, Texas and the rest would probably be okay with adding TCU and calling it a day. If they wanted to go beyond 12, New Mexico, Colorado St, and maybe even Memphis or Tulsa could fit. While the overall conference might slip, there would be less pressure to play championship tournies and games outside the state of Texas. It's been my experience that Texans don't think they need outsiders.

You're probably right. Close the state and shoot at both borders, they'd be a hell of a lot better off.

[bk18]

If the ACC expands they will not be taking any basketball only schools. It is not going to happen like this guy envisions.

+1.

This article is full of bologna. Probably most unlikely scenarios i've heard. This guy did not do his research. And did he simply forget to put SLU on the board somewhere? I mean 10 NCAA men's soccer championships and a soon to be premiere basketball program don't get any recognition?

[bk18]

His second biggest (1st was forgetting SLU) is saying that the ACC or as he calls it "the big atlantic" takes Villanova, Georgetown, and St. John's for "basketball only" along with Notre Dame.

Yeah so Notre Dame is going to turn down the Big 10 and play in the "Big Atlantic" alongside St. John's and Villanova?????? HAHHAHAHAH

Let's face it, Notre Dame is heading to the Big 10 or staying in the Big East. No other possibilities at all.

[thetorch]

Texas never goes to the Pac-10.

I don't think this guy has a clue. If/When the Big 10 does expand the Big 12 is finished. Texas wants to become a super school with the biggest national brand. It only becomes that if it is aligned with schools out East. Texas will beg to go to the Big Ten. The only problem is academics. Those rumors about the Big10 only being able to add contiguous schools is nonsense. No such rule is in their charter.

If Texas isn't in the Big Ten then they go to the SEC with a couple of their Texas brethren.

[brianstl]

Texas would rather be in the Pac 10 than the big 10. With the exception of California, the population growth rate in the Pac 10 states drawfs that of the Big 10 states.

The two Texas schools, also, make sense for the Pac 10. It gives them a chance to have earlier start times to a game or two a week which allows them to better access to east coast viewers.

[knockahoma]

Would the Texas schools just seceed already?

[xfactor9600]

Would the Texas schools just seceed already?

As I noted on Xavierhoops, why in the world would this "new" A-10 keep schools like Fordham at the expense of Saint Louis. It makes no sense from an athletics or facility standpoint. I think the guy put together the other conferences the way he wanted them and then cobbled all of the left overs into this "new and innovative" conference. I doubt we see anything like this.

Also I don't see Marquette leaving the Big East unless forced by gunpoint. Those fans are fanatical about playing in the Beast (as they call it). Don't believe me? Go check out muscoop.com.

[knockahoma]

Good luck getting any SLU fan to click on that link.

I don't follow the NBA, but I will root against any team that pays D. Wade or Travis Diener. Talk about ripping the heart out.

When SLU held Marquette to a school-record low at the Bradley Center the last time the two schools met as C-USA foes, I went to services at my church and thanked God...not knowing of the 20 point disaster at George Washington that was to come...karma, I guess...

[kevinfootes]

Good luck getting any SLU fan to click on that link.

I don't follow the NBA, but I will root against any team that pays D. Wade or Travis Diener. Talk about ripping the heart out.

When SLU held Marquette to a school-record low at the Bradley Center the last time the two schools met as C-USA foes, I went to services at my church and thanked God...not knowing of the 20 point disaster at George Washington that was to come...karma, I guess...

is the clock ticking yet?

[slufanskip]

Texas never goes to the Pac-10.

I don't think this guy has a clue. If/When the Big 10 does expand the Big 12 is finished. Texas wants to become a super school with the biggest national brand. It only becomes that if it is aligned with schools out East. Texas will beg to go to the Big Ten. The only problem is academics. Those rumors about the Big10 only being able to add contiguous schools is nonsense. No such rule is in their charter.

If Texas isn't in the Big Ten then they go to the SEC with a couple of their Texas brethren.

There is no academic problem with Texas, If I'm not mistaken UT is the best academic school in the Big 12.

[Clock_Tower]

There has been talk in the past re Texas and the Pac-10. However, I don't see that happening.

I think Colorado to the Pac-10 is more likely than Texas. There was a report that 24 football players on the Colorado roster are from California. Colorado has a significant number of students from California.

When news of Pac-10 expansion first broke, the first 2 schools mentioned were Utah (which has been on most of the lists of expandees) and BYU. Colorado may have replaced BYU in the Top 2 on the list. I know Colorado football is playing Cal in Berkeley this coming season. Numbers 4 and 5 were San Diego State and UNLV. There has been some talk re Boise State, but I am a Doubting Thomas on that one.

In this latest round of dominos, there is more talk about Texas and Texas A&M and the SEC, where they would be reunited with old rival Arkansas. Or they may just stay put in the Big XII, where Texas seems to have it pretty good.

Believe there is also a certain mindset in the Mountain West (Denver and Salt Lake included) where they first look West before they look Eastward. Not surprised that Colorado fields so many kids from California. Joining the PAC10 would probably be good for their sports programs. Sounds alot like the current situation at Mizzou fielding so many of the kids from Texas. By going to Texas for games, Mizzou can recruit and convince kids who are picked over by Texas to come to Mizzou so that they can return to Austin to beat their friends. W/o games and connections to the fertile recruiting grounds of Texas, Mizzou will need a national recruiting coach to survive in the new Big 10. Mizzou is in a tough spot. Their alums/fans in Kansas City look at things abit differently that here in St. Louis. As we have seen in basketball at SLU, reliance upon the kids only from St. Louis and/or Missouri will result in mediocre teams and definite dryspells.

[knockahoma]

Believe there is also a certain mindset in the Mountain West (Denver and Salt Lake included) where they first look West before they look Eastward. Not surprised that Colorado fields so many kids from California. Joining the PAC10 would probably be good for their sports programs. Sounds alot like the current situation at Mizzou fielding so many of the kids from Texas. By going to Texas for games, Mizzou can recruit and convince kids who are picked over by Texas to come to Mizzou so that they can return to Austin to beat their friends. W/o games and connections to the fertile recruiting grounds of Texas, Mizzou will need a national recruiting coach to survive in the new Big 10. Mizzou is in a tough spot. Their alums/fans in Kansas City look at things abit differently that here in St. Louis. As we have seen in basketball at SLU, reliance upon the kids only from St. Louis and/or Missouri will result in mediocre teams and definite dryspells.

I think GP can do the job with Mizzou in the Big Ten. I'm not sure what his strategy is for recruiting, but the if he can connect Columbia to the Chicago pipeline that has historically connected Iowa City and Ann Arbor via South Bend, I think he'll be ok. He won't get any top 50 Wisconsin or Minny recruits. They tend to stay at home. Fitz at Northwestern wants guys who play exactly like he did when he was tearing it up at LB and high character people, so Pinkel knows he can't get those types to commit to Mizzou. KC and Chicago are good recruiting grounds and with good alumni contingencies to support their program. Pinkel is a good coach and I think he'd probably welcome the challenge to bring his Tigers into Happy Valley or Camp Randall on a Saturday night...

question -- would the Illinois game be moved to alternate campus sites or stay in STL??

[willie]

I think GP can do the job with Mizzou in the Big Ten. I'm not sure what his strategy is for recruiting, but the if he can connect Columbia to the Chicago pipeline that has historically connected Iowa City and Ann Arbor via South Bend, I think he'll be ok. He won't get any top 50 Wisconsin or Minny recruits. They tend to stay at home. Fitz at Northwestern wants guys who play exactly like he did when he was tearing it up at LB and high character people, so Pinkel knows he can't get those types to commit to Mizzou. KC and Chicago are good recruiting grounds and with good alumni contingencies to support their program. Pinkel is a good coach and I think he'd probably welcome the challenge to bring his Tigers into Happy Valley or Camp Randall on a Saturday night...

question -- would the Illinois game be moved to alternate campus sites or stay in STL??

I believe this is the last year for that game.

[Clock_Tower]

I think GP can do the job with Mizzou in the Big Ten. I'm not sure what his strategy is for recruiting, but the if he can connect Columbia to the Chicago pipeline that has historically connected Iowa City and Ann Arbor via South Bend, I think he'll be ok. He won't get any top 50 Wisconsin or Minny recruits. They tend to stay at home. Fitz at Northwestern wants guys who play exactly like he did when he was tearing it up at LB and high character people, so Pinkel knows he can't get those types to commit to Mizzou. KC and Chicago are good recruiting grounds and with good alumni contingencies to support their program. Pinkel is a good coach and I think he'd probably welcome the challenge to bring his Tigers into Happy Valley or Camp Randall on a Saturday night...

question -- would the Illinois game be moved to alternate campus sites or stay in STL??

No. League games will not be played in St. Louis each year. Mizzou loves to play KU so much and therefore, if the Mizzou joins the Big 10, Mizzou can simply play KU in both football and basketball if they wanted to each year. The natural venues would be in KC each year. Instead of the Busch Bragging Rights game in basketball, Mizzou could get trounced by KU on a neutral court each year at Kemper just like they did by the Illini at Savvis. Instead of playing Troy State, the Illlini... etc, Pinkel can play a home and home with KU to start each year and/or have the game played at Arrowhead. St. Louis' loss is Kansas City's gain.

[knockahoma]

No. League games will not be played in St. Louis each year. Mizzou loves to play KU so much and therefore, if the Mizzou joins the Big 10, Mizzou can simply play KU in both football and basketball if they wanted to each year. The natural venues would be in KC each year. Instead of the Busch Bragging Rights game in basketball, Mizzou could get trounced by KU on a neutral court each year at Kemper just like they did by the Illini at Savvis. Instead of playing Troy State, the Illlini... etc, Pinkel can play a home and home with KU to start each year and/or have the game played at Arrowhead. St. Louis' loss is Kansas City's gain.

Good to know. I'm wondering what the Rock Chalk boards are saying about this...