OT: Midtown Development

[wgstl]

Does foundry have any bars with it?

[Bills_06]

Well I posted the article on Scottrade renovations originally because I saw people thinking the SLU law professor had alternate agenda with Chaifetz which I disagreed with or were just angry with him.  The lawsuit was withdrawn because the law didn't apply to arena's built before 2004 so didn't make him look much better that he didn't find that out before filing.  

[slufanskip]

3 hours ago, kwyjibo said:

The state and city collect nowhere near that kind of revenue (although apparently they do collect game day revenue on away teams).  They are not being taxed on the whole of their income.  St. Louis dodged a bullet with the Rams because they were offering the kind of money they were never ever getting back (particularly in present value).  Also, the issue is not revenue it is NET revenue and ADDITIONAL revenue.  In the absence of sports facilities people still spend money (generally the same) and cities collect the exact same amount of tax revenue.  You also ignore all the costs (the bulk is the subsidy but a lot of cities spend lots of money on peripheral improvements which cost tons of money and make bad deals worse).

As someone who is actually trained in economics I have read several consistent and well researched treatises on the scam that is sports facilities (Victor Matheson, Rodney Fort, Roger Noll, Judith Grant Long, etc).  The best writer on the subject is the excellent Neil deMause.

Now there are economic benefits to a well educated public (way more than any stadium could provide) including the ability to reason correctly that the benefits of sports facilities are dramatically overstated and the costs largely ignored.  I suggest St. Louis spend more money on that so they can get elect smarter politicians and have a better informed electorate.

Not trying to get off the subject but since you brought up the money might be better spent having a well educated public ... does throwing money at education really have any more benefit than throwing money at sports venues?

[JMM28]

7 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

Humphreys is attacking SLU big J journo professors

She might as well start selling off assets now. She's toast. Personally liable and damages! Damn. Lawyer words all over the place. 

[BigMouthBilliken]

9 hours ago, kwyjibo said:

The state and city collect nowhere near that kind of revenue (although apparently they do collect game day revenue on away teams).  They are not being taxed on the whole of their income.  St. Louis dodged a bullet with the Rams because they were offering the kind of money they were never ever getting back (particularly in present value).  Also, the issue is not revenue it is NET revenue and ADDITIONAL revenue.  In the absence of sports facilities people still spend money (generally the same) and cities collect the exact same amount of tax revenue.  You also ignore all the costs (the bulk is the subsidy but a lot of cities spend lots of money on peripheral improvements which cost tons of money and make bad deals worse).

As someone who is actually trained in economics I have read several consistent and well researched treatises on the scam that is sports facilities (Victor Matheson, Rodney Fort, Roger Noll, Judith Grant Long, etc).  The best writer on the subject is the excellent Neil deMause.

Now there are economic benefits to a well educated public (way more than any stadium could provide) including the ability to reason correctly that the benefits of sports facilities are dramatically overstated and the costs largely ignored.  I suggest St. Louis spend more money on that so they can get elect smarter politicians and have a better informed electorate.

You may have a point. On account of your grammatical error in the last sentence ("can get elect smarter") it seems as if you would have benefited from a better education system  

[Box and Won]

10 hours ago, JMM28 said:

She might as well start selling off assets now. She's toast. Personally liable and damages! Damn. Lawyer words all over the place. 

Lawyer up, Amber. 

[DirtyRican]

59 minutes ago, Box and Won said:

Lawyer up, Amber. 

It does piss me off that they are attempting to profit off the personalized Blue Angels autographed photo. 

[kwyjibo]

14 hours ago, slufanskip said:

Not trying to get off the subject but since you brought up the money might be better spent having a well educated public ... does throwing money at education really have any more benefit than throwing money at sports venues?

Absolutely.  Like anything it has to be done well and other things in an economy can undermine the benefits of education but the notion that benefits are positive and quite large are generally uncontroversial.  You can easily google decent studies.  Frankly, I cannot understand why this is not completely obvious.  Education creates skills, knowledge, sophistication and flexibility--all of which tends to improve productivity and productivity is really the only thing that can advance an economy.  You could spend so much money on something that the additional benefit for the last dollar is negligible (like health care) but education is nowhere near that (particularly early education).

Sports venues are in a class by themselves because they are generally the worst investment public entities make (that is why I care)--they really have no general economic benefit at all and cost a lot money.  There was a time when the investment was private then the public was an easy mark for a while but things are generally changing against in most places.  If they were good investments private money would make them like the old days--facilities would last longer and be pragmatically upgraded like the old days as well.  But public extortion is a source of profit and until people wise up they will continue to fleeced.

[DoctorB]

mock ups for the new hospital; groundbreaking this August...

http://www.slu.edu/news/2017/february/ssm-renderings.php

[slufanskip]

5 hours ago, kwyjibo said:

Absolutely.  Like anything it has to be done well and other things in an economy can undermine the benefits of education but the notion that benefits are positive and quite large are generally uncontroversial.  You can easily google decent studies.  Frankly, I cannot understand why this is not completely obvious.  Education creates skills, knowledge, sophistication and flexibility--all of which tends to improve productivity and productivity is really the only thing that can advance an economy.  You could spend so much money on something that the additional benefit for the last dollar is negligible (like health care) but education is nowhere near that (particularly early education).

Sports venues are in a class by themselves because they are generally the worst investment public entities make (that is why I care)--they really have no general economic benefit at all and cost a lot money.  There was a time when the investment was private then the public was an easy mark for a while but things are generally changing against in most places.  If they were good investments private money would make them like the old days--facilities would last longer and be pragmatically upgraded like the old days as well.  But public extortion is a source of profit and until people wise up they will continue to fleeced.

I'm not questioning whether education is good. I'm questioning whether throwing money at it helps. I don't think the money spent on education is the problem, it's the done well that seems to be a major problem.

And, I'm not for tax payer money going to sports venue's either unless it can be absolutely proven that it makes more money than it costs. Which quite frankly, probably means never.

[Glorydays2013]

I am surprised no one is talking about the foundry project by Pappos and Ikea. From what i read we are getting something similar to that target type area near Galleria right by campus. That is going to be huge

[wgstl]

10 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

I am surprised no one is talking about the foundry project by Pappos and Ikea. From what i read we are getting something similar to that target type area near Galleria right by campus. That is going to be huge

I did mention this on the last page. 

 

 I was at Chelsea market last week in NYC. It's the same thing thats coming to STL.  Cool concept, boring food choices. hopefully the one here is better

[bonwich]

23 minutes ago, wgstl said:

I did mention this on the last page. 

 

 I was at Chelsea market last week in NYC. It's the same thing thats coming to STL.  Cool concept, boring food choices. hopefully the one here is better

I would take exception to your description of "boring food choices." I'm no expert (oh, wait), but I've been eating at The Lobster Place for about 10 years and still manage to find new stuff every time I go there -- and have to wait in line anytime after about 10:30. There are lots of great places throughout, but also (Del Posto, one of the best restaurants in NYC, and Morimoto, as in Iron Chef Morimoto, which may actually be considered to be in Chelsea Market. I think there's also a Colicchio restaurant across the street.) Some of the stuff I've stumbled across inside -- and sometimes you just need to wander the side aisles to find interesting stuff) include Los Tacos, Buddakan. Num Pang and Mokbar, plus a few other walk-up bars in the right-side branch when you enter from 10th Avenue.  

I'm pleased that you'll hold the Foundry to such high standards.  

[Littlebill]

1 minute ago, bonwich said:

I would take exception to your description of "boring food choices." I'm no expert (oh, wait), but I've been eating at The Lobster Place for about 10 years and still manage to find new stuff every time I go there -- and have to wait in line anytime after about 10:30. There are lots of great places throughout, but also (Del Posto, one of the best restaurants in NYC, and Morimoto, as in Iron Chef Morimoto, which may actually be considered to be in Chelsea Market. I think there's also a Colicchio restaurant across the street.) Some of the stuff I've stumbled across inside -- and sometimes you just need to wander the side aisles to find interesting stuff) include Los Tacos, Buddakan. Num Pang and Mokbar, plus a few other walk-up bars in the right-side branch when you enter from 10th Avenue.  

I'm pleased that you'll hold the Foundry to such high standards.  

Bonwich - you see this? https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/20/sports/soccer/mike-piazza-italy-reggiana-owner.html?_r=0

What did you think of his STL comment? ha

[wgstl]

3 minutes ago, bonwich said:

I would take exception to your description of "boring food choices." I'm no expert (oh, wait), but I've been eating at The Lobster Place for about 10 years and still manage to find new stuff every time I go there -- and have to wait in line anytime after about 10:30. There are lots of great places throughout, but also (Del Posto, one of the best restaurants in NYC, and Morimoto, as in Iron Chef Morimoto, which may actually be considered to be in Chelsea Market. I think there's also a Colicchio restaurant across the street.) Some of the stuff I've stumbled across inside -- and sometimes you just need to wander the side aisles to find interesting stuff) include Los Tacos, Buddakan. Num Pang and Mokbar, plus a few other walk-up bars in the right-side branch when you enter from 10th Avenue.  

I'm pleased that you'll hold the Foundry to such high standards.  

All the stuff that looked good(the sea food joints) had massive lines that weren't worth it.  But there were tons of weird little (hippie, coastal, whatever you wanna call it) stands. 

I was hoping to see more traditional food choices. 

[BigMouthBilliken]

5 minutes ago, Littlebill said:

Bonwich - you see this? https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/20/sports/soccer/mike-piazza-italy-reggiana-owner.html?_r=0

What did you think of his STL comment? ha

ZINGER

[Old guy]

Maybe it is an intended zinger, maybe not. You have to realize that for the people that live in the East Coast, St. Louis is literally nothing other than a place to fly over. Such a place is, in their minds, not a place where good food may be found. I guess he could have named any number of cities in his comment but St. Louis was the one that came to his mind at the time. He really meant to say: there is absolutely nothing for me in the middle of the country (US). I take it as a generic put down of all people living in the inner country (US) rather than a zinger specifically against St. Louis. May he go broke in Reggia Emiliana.

 

[Cowboy]

1 hour ago, bonwich said:

I would take exception to your description of "boring food choices." I'm no expert (oh, wait), but I've been eating at The Lobster Place for about 10 years and still manage to find new stuff every time I go there -- and have to wait in line anytime after about 10:30. There are lots of great places throughout, but also (Del Posto, one of the best restaurants in NYC, and Morimoto, as in Iron Chef Morimoto, which may actually be considered to be in Chelsea Market. I think there's also a Colicchio restaurant across the street.) Some of the stuff I've stumbled across inside -- and sometimes you just need to wander the side aisles to find interesting stuff) include Los Tacos, Buddakan. Num Pang and Mokbar, plus a few other walk-up bars in the right-side branch when you enter from 10th Avenue.  

I'm pleased that you'll hold the Foundry to such high standards.  

-is there a Panda Express? Applebees?

[bonwich]

So how the fork would he know that you can't get a good meal in St. Louis? He most likely never left a 40-square-block area downtown when he was here (other than, of course, his regular trips to Brooklyn).

And as for all of that lovely bresaola and coppa and prosciutto he's only now just discovering, perhaps he should have spent more time in the neighborhoods here than in the strip clubs. Perhaps he would have found all those meats and more at the home of the "best salami in America."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolmsted/2011/05/25/the-best-salami-in-the-country/#4bf07ecb394c

What an .  

[Glorydays2013]

I am going to say bull**** on the food comment. If being in stl showed me anything it's that they are anything but bland and boring. Some of the most diverse food I've seen with specialties in delis and BBQ. 

[kmbilliken]

St. Louis has plenty of good restaurants, but overall it doesn't compare to Italy. Italy is the best food place I've ever been. Its better than NewYork.

[thetorch]

9 hours ago, Glorydays2013 said:

I am surprised no one is talking about the foundry project by Pappos and Ikea. From what i read we are getting something similar to that target type area near Galleria right by campus. That is going to be huge

 

There is a spot earmarked for a 30,000 sf grocery store.  I'm hoping my company jumps on it and lets me run that location.

[Box and Won]

8 hours ago, thetorch said:

There is a spot earmarked for a 30,000 sf grocery store.  I'm hoping my company jumps on it and lets me run that location.

NextSTL mentioned Fresh Market or Fresh Thyme as a possible grocery tenant.

Esquire tweeted a video of a taco joint in Chelsea Market.  Looked amazing.

[thetorch]

3 hours ago, Box and Won said:

NextSTL mentioned Fresh Market or Fresh Thyme as a possible grocery tenant.

Esquire tweeted a video of a taco joint in Chelsea Market.  Looked amazing.

Neither of those appear to be options.

[bonwich]

3 hours ago, Box and Won said:

NextSTL mentioned Fresh Market or Fresh Thyme as a possible grocery tenant.

Esquire tweeted a video of a taco joint in Chelsea Market.  Looked amazing.

Given that the Fresh Market in Creve Coeur closed in about 20 minutes, I'm guessing it's out of the picture for the Foundry.

Esquire was probably at the aforementioned Los Tacos. To go a bit further into tangents, Whole Foods in Brentwood now operates a taqueria. Haven't been yet.