Tom Timmermann's Billiken Beat has the news now

[Quality Is Job 1]

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/billiken-...uis-university/

[Scoop]

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/billiken-...uis-university/

I find this disappointing. You're a Freshman complaining about playing time when there are 2 all conference seniors ahead of you. He hasn't played that well to earn more time. He can't bust his butt for a year under a proven coach and wait for more minutes to open up when Tommie and Kevin graduate? Take your lumps and learn a few things. Pure eragance. Good riddens. I hope you make all conference for the OVC.

[DirtyRican]

If this is really the only reason he is moving on then that is ridiculous. It is 7 games into your first year. This makes no sense.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I find this disappointing. You're a Freshman complaining about playing time when there are 2 all conference seniors ahead of you. He hasn't played that well to earn more time. He can't bust his butt for a year under a proven coach and wait for more minutes to open up when Tommie and Kevin graduate? Take your lumps and learn a few things. Pure arrogance. Good riddance. I hope you make all conference for the OVC.

If this is really the only reason he is moving on then that is ridiculous. It is 7 games into your first year. This makes no sense.

We live in a society in which instant gratification is now very important for many people.

Following is the comment I posted in Timmermann's blog entry:

It’s too bad Ruben can’t stick it out and develop a flow. He reminded me somewhat of Erwin Claggett. If I recall correctly, Claggett took a little while to work his way into the rotation and heavier minutes his freshman season, yet now he’s, what, SLU’s second-leading all-time career scorer and forever the top career points leader of the Great Midwest Conference? Ah, what could have been with Cotto!

[DirtyRican]

We live in a society in which instant gratification is now very important for many people.

Following is the comment I posted in Timmermann's blog entry:

It’s too bad Ruben can’t stick it out and develop a flow. He reminded me somewhat of Erwin Claggett. If I recall correctly, Claggett took a little while to work his way into the rotation and heavier minutes his freshman season, yet now he’s, what, SLU’s second-leading all-time career scorer and forever the top career points leader of the Great Midwest Conference? Ah, what could have been with Cotto!

Great post, maybe Ruben reads it.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Great post, maybe Ruben reads it.

This probably goes back to what someone was saying in the rumor post -- I question what the adults and people close to Ruben were telling him. They must have been souping his head up.

[jjray]

I find this disappointing. You're a Freshman complaining about playing time when there are 2 all conference seniors ahead of you. He hasn't played that well to earn more time. He can't bust his butt for a year under a proven coach and wait for more minutes to open up when Tommie and Kevin graduate? Take your lumps and learn a few things. Pure eragance. Good riddens. I hope you make all conference for the OVC.

I agree with the tenor of your poast but not the 2nd sentance--"2 all conference seniors ahead of you". a. Tommie and Kevin are unlikely to make all conference and b. Tommie has been playing the 3. Rick has basically said he doesn't have another player to play 3 besides Tommie who can rebound. Cassity has been horrid on both ends of the floor yet came off the bench before Cotto to play the 2 for much of the season. That had to be hard to swallow. Still, if this is the reason for the transfer, I think Cotto made a rash decision. The cream always rises to the top. Cotto is the only legit scoring guard on the team after Kevin (if one views Tommie as a fulltime 3). I also think he is valuable as a backup point guard. Cassity is not up to the challenge this year physically and I doubt he will grow into the job. Cotto's minutes were only going up as the season went along. I gotta believe something else is in play with Cotto other than minutes. Otherwise, the smart move was to play out the season at SLU and build a better resume for shopping yourself as a transfer. 1/2 year of extra eligibility is not worth much.

[davidnark]

If this is really the only reason he is moving on then that is ridiculous. It is 7 games into your first year. This makes no sense.

Ruben's got some people in his ear telling him that he is better than he is right now. Ruben has all the tools to develop into a star, but like all players he needs to put in the time to earn his stripes. The shame of it all is that Ruben was fully aware of this situation when he committed to SLU, but somehow the message got lost.

[SLU_Nick]

I agree with the tenor of your poast but not the 2nd sentance--"2 all conference seniors ahead of you". a. Tommie and Kevin are unlikely to make all conference and b. Tommie has been playing the 3. Rick has basically said he doesn't have another player to play 3 besides Tommie who can rebound. Cassity has been horrid on both ends of the floor yet came off the bench before Cotto to play the 2 for much of the season. That had to be hard to swallow. Still, if this is the reason for the transfer, I think Cotto made a rash decision. The cream always rises to the top. Cotto is the only legit scoring guard on the team after Kevin (if one views Tommie as a fulltime 3). I also think he is valuable as a backup point guard. Cassity is not up to the challenge this year physically and I doubt he will grow into the job. Cotto's minutes were only going up as the season went along. I gotta believe something else is in play with Cotto other than minutes. Otherwise, the smart move was to play out the season at SLU and build a better resume for shopping yourself as a transfer. 1/2 year of extra eligibility is not worth much.

I certainly agree. There are other reasons why Cotto is transferring. The most likely is academics. He was the freshman who was showing me the most.

Also, RM included his best wishes on academics...that could be saying something.

If he goes to LaSalle and lights us up for 3 years that would hurt.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I agree with the tenor of your poast but not the 2nd sentance--"2 all conference seniors ahead of you". a. Tommie and Kevin are unlikely to make all conference and b. Tommie has been playing the 3. Rick has basically said he doesn't have another player to play 3 besides Tommie who can rebound. Cassity has been horrid on both ends of the floor yet came off the bench before Cotto to play the 2 for much of the season. That had to be hard to swallow. Still, if this is the reason for the transfer, I think Cotto made a rash decision. The cream always rises to the top. Cotto is the only legit scoring guard on the team after Kevin (if one views Tommie as a fulltime 3). I also think he is valuable as a backup point guard. Cassity is not up to the challenge this year physically and I doubt he will grow into the job. Cotto's minutes were only going up as the season went along. I gotta believe something else is in play with Cotto other than minutes. Otherwise, the smart move was to play out the season at SLU and build a better resume for shopping yourself as a transfer. 1/2 year of extra eligibility is not worth much.

Why do have to "trash" one player to praise another? Kyle Cassity, who's played only seven games in his career -- he's still just a freshman -- has NOT been horrid on either end of the floor. Just because he has yet to excel or distinguish himself doesn't make him horrid yet.

Also, Ruben actually loses, rather than gains, eligibility because of this rash decision. After he sits out a year, he'll have only two-and-a-half years left: the second half of his sophomore season on out.

[davidnark]

Also, Ruben actually loses, rather than gains, eligibility because of this rash decision. After he sits out a year, he'll have only two-and-a-half years left: the second half of his sophomore season on out.

I believe that is incorrect. While he has to sit out a year, he will still have 3 and 1/2 years left.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I believe that is incorrect. While he has to sit out a year, he will still have 3 and 1/2 years left.

No, he won't. His freshman year is done. He's already used his freshman season and won't get to be a freshman again.

[kshoe]

I certainly agree. There are other reasons why Cotto is transferring. The most likely is academics. He was the freshman who was showing me the most.

Also, RM included his best wishes on academics...that could be saying something.

If he goes to LaSalle and lights us up for 3 years that would hurt.

Another question comes up too...Will Redbird transfer with him?

I wish people would not guess at academics as the reason for him leaving, because that simply isn't the case. Nark summarized the situation well and lets just leave it at that.

[kshoe]

No, he won't. His freshman year is done. He's already used his freshman season and won't get to be a freshman again.

Thicks, I don't think you are correct.

If Ruben palyed the rest of the season and then transferred he'd have 3 years of eligibility left correct? So why does leaving in the middle of the year mean he'll only have 2.5 years left? At a minimum he'd have 3 but 3.5 seems like the right number.

[Billikan]

Thicks, I don't think you are correct.

If Ruben palyed the rest of the season and then transferred he'd have 3 years of eligibility left correct? So why does leaving in the middle of the year mean he'll only have 2.5 years left? At a minimum he'd have 3 but 3.5 seems like the right number.

As long as he leaves before the next semester begins I am fairly certain that he will have 3 and one half years of eligibility after he sits out a year. You often see that after a year and a half when kids feel they should play more. It happens less often in the first year because the player has only had a few games.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I'm sorry guys, but you're wrong. If you leave mid-way through a season, you are considered as playing that whole season. The next year you have been promoted, even if you don't play until the second half. When Troy Hudson transferred from Missouri in 1995 after two games of his freshman season, when he surfaced at SIU he was a sophomore, and he had to wait until the second semester to play.

The NCAA.org site is down, so I can't cite an official rule. I remember also that when Melvin Robinson transferred midway through his junior season in December 1991, he was to have only the last half of his senior season left to play at Arizona State (albeit he turned pro and never played for ASU).

[Guest BillikenReport]

I'm sorry guys, but you're wrong. If you leave mid-way through a season, you are considered as playing that whole season. The next year you have been promoted, even if you don't play until the second half. When Troy Hudson transferred from Missouri in 1995 after two games of his freshman season, when he surfaced at SIU he was a sophomore, and he had to wait until the second semester to play.

The NCAA.org site is down, so I can't cite an official rule. I remember also that when Melvin Robinson transferred midway through his junior season in December 1991, he was to have only the last half of his senior season left to play at Arizona State (albeit he turned pro and never played for ASU).

thicks,

You are contradicting yourself with what you wrote.

If you leave mid-way through a season, you are considered as playing half of one season.

Your examples prove that point.

[davidnark]

I'm sorry guys, but you're wrong.

Thicks, I am double super secret sorry, but you are wrong. This is the latest transfer news I could find. Jordan Crawford played his full freshman year at IU, is sitting out this season at Xavier, and has 3 full years of eligibility left. Please explain to me why Crawford could play his full freshmen year and still have 3 full years left, while Cotto would only have 2 1/2 years left after only playing one semester.

The nuance you may be getting hung is probably the requirement that the player must complete his four years within five total years. For players who have previously transferred or redshirted, this limits their eligibility after they transfer.

[Quality Is Job 1]

thicks,

You are contradicting yourself with what you wrote.

If you leave mid-way through a season, you are considered as playing half of one season.

Your examples prove that point.

Not in the NCAA's sense of a season of eligibility. According the NCAA, if you play one second of one game, you played that year, unless granted a medical hardship. (There are some exceptions, but one must apply or appeal, and they're granted on a case-by-case basis.) How do my examples prove that Hudson or Robinson retained a half-season of eligibility? Hudson played two games and then, after sitting out, played two-and-a-half years. Robinson played two-and-a-half years and then would have played one-half year had he not turned pro. That adds up to only three years of playing time.

[kshoe]

Not in the NCAA's sense of a season of eligibility. According the NCAA, if you play one second of one game, you played that year, unless granted a medical hardship. (There are some exceptions, but one must apply or appeal, and they're granted on a case-by-case basis.) How do my examples prove that Hudson or Robinson retained a half-season of eligibility? Hudson played two games and then, after sitting out, played two-and-a-half years. Robinson played two-and-a-half years and then would have played one-half year had he not turned pro. That adds up to only three years of playing time.

If all that you say is true, at the very minimum Cotto could sit out all of next year and then have 3 years of eligibility left after that right?

[Quality Is Job 1]

Thicks, I am double super secret sorry, but you are wrong. This is the latest transfer news I could find. Jordan Crawford played his full freshman year at IU, is sitting out this season at Xavier, and has 3 full years of eligibility left. Please explain to me why Crawford could play his full freshmen year and still have 3 full years left, while Cotto would only have 2 1/2 years left after only playing one semester.

The nuance you may be getting hung is probably the requirement that the player must complete his four years within five total years. For players who have previously transferred or redshirted, this limits their eligibility after they transfer.

There's a difference between transferring at the end of a year and transferring in mid-year. When you transfer at the end of a year, the year you sit out in residence can be your redshirt year, thus you retain eligibility. If you transfer in mid-year, it's too late to use your redshirt from the first season, and if you play the second half of the season at the new school, you're not using a redshirt then, either. If you were to use your redshirt, you could sit out a year and a half and have three years of eligibility remaining, but even then you would play just 3 1/2 years. Someone who transfers mid-year would never be able to play four full years.

Anyone care to wager? Let's check back in 13 months and see if Cotto is classified as a sophomore or still a freshman.

[Quality Is Job 1]

If all that you say is true, at the very minimum Cotto could sit out all of next year and then have 3 years of eligibility left after that right?

No, at maximum Cotto would have three years of eligibility left. If he uses his redshirt, he could then play three full years (have played just one-half this year) beginning in 2010, but if he doesn't use his redshirt next year and begins playing in December 2009, he will lose the first semester of his sophomore year next year, giving him a total of three years' worth of games.

[davidnark]

Thicks, here is another story about a kid from George Mason who played his freshmen year and the fall semester of his sophomore year. The article claims he will have 2 1/2 years of eligibility left.

[slufanskip]

Not in the NCAA's sense of a season of eligibility. According the NCAA, if you play one second of one game, you played that year, unless granted a medical hardship. (There are some exceptions, but one must apply or appeal, and they're granted on a case-by-case basis.) How do my examples prove that Hudson or Robinson retained a half-season of eligibility? Hudson played two games and then, after sitting out, played two-and-a-half years. Robinson played two-and-a-half years and then would have played one-half year had he not turned pro. That adds up to only three years of playing time.

I believe Thicks is right. If he plays at all this year, it's a year. If he plays at all next year, it's a year. He could sit the entire year next year and still have 3 years left.

[AlumniFan]

We live in a society in which instant gratification is now very important for many people.

Following is the comment I posted in Timmermann's blog entry:

It’s too bad Ruben can’t stick it out and develop a flow. He reminded me somewhat of Erwin Claggett. If I recall correctly, Claggett took a little while to work his way into the rotation and heavier minutes his freshman season, yet now he’s, what, SLU’s second-leading all-time career scorer and forever the top career points leader of the Great Midwest Conference? Ah, what could have been with Cotto!

The sad thing is that as an adult (40+), you really develop a completely different perspective on life and these types of decisions as a result of a lot of experience and, unfortunately, mistakes. But, as an 18 year old kid, it is really so difficult to even see the proverbial forest through the trees so it is really easy to be misled and make decisions that, in retrospect, were so obviously misguided. Maybe this turns out to be a great move for Rueben, but he had a chance to be a star and get a great education while playing with a top coach in a top facility if only he had exercised a little patience. Of course, this assumes there are not other extenuating circumstances of which we are not collectively aware. Best of luck, Rueben.