3star_recruit Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 What's the knock on Hoener, do you suppose? Too small? It's tough when you're 5'11 165 and not a jet. I imagine the level of recruiting interest will be directly proportional to the muscle he puts on in the weight room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 What's with the Ruben Cotto vs. Bryant Allen stuff? One is a senior. One is a junior. SLU could get both players. It doesn't have to be an either-or situation. exactly. i totally agree with nate. there should be no one or the other thoughts on this. for cowboy above my biggest like past the obvious tremendous range and strong passing skills, is that i like cotto's size. he already has a division one body right now. he looks like an nfl safety. as to 3 star comments to p diddy. i agree that rueben hasnt shown any kind of a consistent crossover to get to the basket, however i think he has a tremendously strong and fast first step. and i have seen him blow by people on a lot of occasions. the thing to remember is that again with that big body, rueben is more likely to still be able to score if the adequate help rotates over because he is strong enough to put it up and get fouled. now one thing i do agree with 3 star about is that cotto doesnt do that enough. he tends to settle for his 3 point shot far too often imo. the biggest complaint i have with cotto is his tendency to take defensive possessions off. it isnt he just gets beat. he just seems to pick and choose when to give that effort. but i have seen some stellar defensive picks from cotto that tells me he can play the defense. considering what rickma has been able to do with convincing players to give a consistent defensive effort i wouldnt be too afraid of that "weakness" though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillikenReport Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 the biggest complaint i have with cotto is his tendency to take defensive possessions off. it isnt he just gets beat. he just seems to pick and choose when to give that effort. but i have seen some stellar defensive picks from cotto that tells me he can play the defense. considering what rickma has been able to do with convincing players to give a consistent defensive effort i wouldnt be too afraid of that "weakness" though. Roy, You were spoiled by watching Kevin Lisch actually play defense at Althoff. I think in general most high school standouts avoid playing tough man defense because they don't want to pick up cheap fouls and hurt their team by having to go to the bench. This is not always the case, but I see it enough. I agree with Ruben's quick first step and also settling for the 3-pointer too much. But I think he'll be fine in college with better coaching. - Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Roy, You were spoiled by watching Kevin Lisch actually play defense at Althoff. I think in general most high school standouts avoid playing tough man defense because they don't want to pick up cheap fouls and hurt their team by having to go to the bench. This is not always the case, but I see it enough. I agree with Ruben's quick first step and also settling for the 3-pointer too much. But I think he'll be fine in college with better coaching. - Nate nate, i was just trying to search for some kind of negative to associate with cotto for those trying to compare players that havent seen him play. i totally agree with everything you write above. and i mentioned that i have seen him make steals on the ball that normal players dont make. thus proof he has the ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Hoops Insider Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Yup. He's kind of like a cross between Kramer Soderberg and Drew Hanlen, though he might be better than both those guys. Hoener shoots it very well and is difficult to handle man-to-man. He's put up some monster scoring games this season. - Nate If he's better than Hanlen, he would be a GREAT pickup. Drew is a heck of a player. Drew is way more athletic than most think. Hanlen had 5-10 D1 offers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 exactly. i totally agree with nate. there should be no one or the other thoughts on this. for cowboy above my biggest like past the obvious tremendous range and strong passing skills, is that i like cotto's size. he already has a division one body right now. he looks like an nfl safety. as to 3 star comments to p diddy. i agree that rueben hasnt shown any kind of a consistent crossover to get to the basket, however i think he has a tremendously strong and fast first step. and i have seen him blow by people on a lot of occasions. the thing to remember is that again with that big body, rueben is more likely to still be able to score if the adequate help rotates over because he is strong enough to put it up and get fouled. now one thing i do agree with 3 star about is that cotto doesnt do that enough. he tends to settle for his 3 point shot far too often imo. the biggest complaint i have with cotto is his tendency to take defensive possessions off. it isnt he just gets beat. he just seems to pick and choose when to give that effort. but i have seen some stellar defensive picks from cotto that tells me he can play the defense. considering what rickma has been able to do with convincing players to give a consistent defensive effort i wouldnt be too afraid of that "weakness" though. I think others have brought it up, but he definitely reminds me of Jameer Nelson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Hoops Insider Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 One is not origanally from St Louis and hasn't been talked up for a couple of years by certain posters on this board that are trying to push their site. If certain people could say they were the first to talk up Cotto they would be taking a different stance. It shouldn't be an Allen vs. Cotto thing. We would be doing great if we could get both of them in a Billiken uniform. They are both great players and very good prospects. Is this a backhanded comment at me? I have no articles or stories or video of Bryant Allen on my site. If I've talked about him a lot, its because he is a very good player and should be a priority for SLU, not because I'm trying to push my site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 I think others have brought it up, but he definitely reminds me of Jameer Nelson. How so, beyond size? Nelson was an incredible dribbler who could get to the basket at will, even as a freshman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 How so, beyond size? Nelson was an incredible dribbler who could get to the basket at will, even as a freshman. That's it, just size/build. I wasn't commenting on his basketball skill (I know better than that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 exactly. i totally agree with nate. there should be no one or the other thoughts on this. for cowboy above my biggest like past the obvious tremendous range and strong passing skills, is that i like cotto's size. he already has a division one body right now. he looks like an nfl safety. as to 3 star comments to p diddy. i agree that rueben hasnt shown any kind of a consistent crossover to get to the basket, however i think he has a tremendously strong and fast first step. and i have seen him blow by people on a lot of occasions. the thing to remember is that again with that big body, rueben is more likely to still be able to score if the adequate help rotates over because he is strong enough to put it up and get fouled. now one thing i do agree with 3 star about is that cotto doesnt do that enough. he tends to settle for his 3 point shot far too often imo. the biggest complaint i have with cotto is his tendency to take defensive possessions off. it isnt he just gets beat. he just seems to pick and choose when to give that effort. but i have seen some stellar defensive picks from cotto that tells me he can play the defense. considering what rickma has been able to do with convincing players to give a consistent defensive effort i wouldnt be too afraid of that "weakness" though. roy my question was if you could compare what you see in cotto to what you see in allen and where cotto is a player you want over allen as you said you wanted cotto over allen and i am just wondering what is causing that point of view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Is this a backhanded comment at me? I have no articles or stories or video of Bryant Allen on my site. If I've talked about him a lot, its because he is a very good player and should be a priority for SLU, not because I'm trying to push my site.I stated it because it is you and your brother that keep on trying to make it into a Cotto vs. Allen thing. I don't think it is that. I want both, but I think Allen is probably going to end up playing football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Hoops Insider Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I stated it because it is you and your brother that keep on trying to make it into a Cotto vs. Allen thing. I don't think it is that. I want both, but I think Allen is probably going to end up playing football. We are? I didnt know we had an agenda? I've said that I wanted Bryant Allen, but I've never said it had to be one or the other or ever knocked Cotto's game. But lash out if you want to. That's fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 We are? I didnt know we had an agenda? I've said that I wanted Bryant Allen, but I've never said it had to be one or the other or ever knocked Cotto's game. But lash out if you want to. That's fine. V, thanks for letting Brian lash out, that's sweet of you. Of course, didn't you start an Allen v. Cotto thread and now your brother chimes in with "who would choose Cotto over Allen now" or something like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Hoops Insider Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 V, thanks for letting Brian lash out, that's sweet of you. Of course, didn't you start an Allen v. Cotto thread and now your brother chimes in with "who would choose Cotto over Allen now" or something like that? I was asked who I thought was better in this thread http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=14351 I guess its my fault someone asked me a question. You give me a lot of crap on here and really for no reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I was asked who I thought was better in this thread http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=14351 I guess its my fault someone asked me a question. You give me a lot of crap on here and really for no reason. If you think its for no reason then we'll agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Hoops Insider Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 If you have a legitimate reason, please reveal your grand plan to me. When does it end? At what point will you be satisfied? When will all the stars be in alignment and your mission finally complete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmrh32/slu Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Lets just try and get both...lol. The Bills will take both. Until then come out and encourage Mr. Allen as Mr. Cotto to commit to SLU. Allen will be on display wed. night down at JEFCO in Hillsboro MO. Come check him out. 7:45pm at JEFCO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Hoops Insider Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Coach, I'm interested in seeing what you guys do against Crystal City. Isn't their star player 6'5 Lance Cannon, an AAU teammate of Bryant Allen. I would guess that would mean both teams no what to expect. You guys have a pretty good sophomore named Bryton Hobbs who has really picked it up recently. I hope he plays with the Eagles or Gateway this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmrh32/slu Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 It will be fun. I know coach will have them( Crystal City) ready to go. Yes Bryant and Lance played on a good 16u eagle team. I just hope we don't forget how to defend...lol Bryton has stepped it up and so has some of our other key guys. It will be fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Hoops Insider Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Next year you return Allen, Hobbs, Williams, Belts and King. Down right scary! Is Tony King related to Tori King and can you compare the two players? I saw Tori play earlier this year against Forest Park. He didnt get a lot of time, but he looked good in spurts, but mostly just taking the outside shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmrh32/slu Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Yeah, we have our core coming back and it will be interesting to see what happens. Tony is a bigger player and more athletic. He can put it on the floor, still need work, but he is only a freshman. He is 6'0 and can defend his behind off. Tory was a better transition shooter and could hit from deep and had a nice mid range game that he developed over time. Tony is getting to that right now. He is going to be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Hoops Insider Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Great to hear. Looks like you have the have the makings of a team that could win back to back titles. Can't get ahead of myself though because the next step is Wednesday. I do think you guys are the favorite this year though, and I dont think anyone in 3A will return the type of talent you guys have next year. I know some teams will be moving up and down next year. Is Maplewood staying put in 3A? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmrh32/slu Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 We will be 3A again next season. I think it will be a game on Wednesday. We just need to stay focus and keep lifting up our play. We played a good schedule this season to prepare us for the playoffs. Lets see if it pays off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 roy my question was if you could compare what you see in cotto to what you see in allen and where cotto is a player you want over allen as you said you wanted cotto over allen and i am just wondering what is causing that point of view as stated many times, cotto has the division one body and unbelievable range shooting the ball. after watching polk in high school and then at slu i have become a big believer in the physical build aspect of a player. i dont like that the game has gotten that way, but with the ever increasing lack of whistle's by the zebra's there is no denying the necessity to make that a major factor. as cory says above, there is no reason to play either/or. we should get both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 as stated many times, cotto has the division one body and unbelievable range shooting the ball. after watching polk in high school and then at slu i have become a big believer in the physical build aspect of a player. i dont like that the game has gotten that way, but with the ever increasing lack of whistle's by the zebra's there is no denying the necessity to make that a major factor. as cory says above, there is no reason to play either/or. we should get both. i guess you choose not to answer the question, that's fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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