Most Amazing Transformation

[brianstl]

Cheeseman, it is almost scary how much I have agreed with your recent posts.

[slu72]

i want to point out that it is you that made this a soderberg point not me. i beleive in coach majerus, especially long term. and if anyone could have overachieved as those of you that continuously knock our current talent infer it would take, past record says it is rickma. that is what is so frustrating.

as to your "It's called free speech, get used to it." shot,

i personally havent said you or any of the defenders of rickma's performance thus far shouldnt be allowed to say anything. if you ask me, those of us questioning why coach majerus hasnt achieved this year are the ones being shouted down. so not real sure where that shot came from.

Alrigit, I'll grant you it was a cheap shot. But still you've got to admit, a lot of us were taken to task during the UB reign for being critical of his recruiting and some of his coaching schemes. All I'm saying is it seems the guys who are negative now and begging for immediate results, are thinking this is just fine. Which it is! But the same consideration was not being given last year. It all doesn't really matter. RM ain't reading this board to take the temperature of the fan.

[hoops88]

Cheeseman, it is almost scary how much I have agreed with your recent posts.

SLU beat a bad SIUC team and now RM is transforming his team ? They're supposed to beat SIUC !

[billiken_roy]

Alrigit, I'll grant you it was a cheap shot. But still you've got to admit, a lot of us were taken to task during the UB reign for being critical of his recruiting and some of his coaching schemes. All I'm saying is it seems the guys who are negative now and begging for immediate results, are thinking this is just fine. Which it is! But the same consideration was not being given last year. It all doesn't really matter. RM ain't reading this board to take the temperature of the fan.

i think i was in the minority last year as well!

this team can win. i am convinced of it.

[billiken_roy]

SLU beat a bad SIUC team and now RM is transforming his team ? They're supposed to beat SIUC !

hoops, how much you want to bet that siuc will contend for their conference title by march? look at their four losses. southern cal, indiana, charlotte and slu. imo those are not bad teams and each loss was on the road. siuc's sos is 16th in the nation.

i agree slu is supposed to beat siuc (however i had this down as one of our losses) at home. but any school is at a disadvantage on the road.

i am hoping rickma is transforming. he is capable and has done more with less in previous years. i know my enthusiasm meter went way up after saturday night especially considering the way the game was played.

[aj_arete]

SLU beat a bad SIUC team and now RM is transforming his team ? They're supposed to beat SIUC !

We don't have enough evidence to suggest that SIUC is a bad team. With their great defense and solid fundamentals, they'll be an elite team in the MVC. Plus, it helps that it appears that the MVC is down. While I think this was a very good win for SLU, this team will fade miserably down the stretch unless someone emerges to rest Lisch and Liddell for brief stretches. Imagine when they have to play 3 games a week.

[ACE]

Maybe you guys didn't get the memo, but hoops88 is a troll. He is not a Slu fan. When we says "we" when referring to SLU, don't buy it.

[Billikan]

Lately, I have been hammering on Billikan as much as anybody for his - in my opinion - senseless comments but I do agree that we all have a right to our thoughts. While I might disagree with Billikan he has the right to make them. He apparently has been a long time donor and fan of the Bills and I will always respect that of anyone regardless of their comments. The program needs and needed everyone they can to succeed.

I agree with those who have said that RM has not actually said the bad things about his players that some seem to sense he has said. I have tried to point out that all NCAA teams live in the public and so to a certain degree they have to expect some amount of public comments without it being hateful or personal. RM never did that all he ever said were objective comments that most of us were thinking anyway. I have no problem with an honest coach - after all the Cardinals are now being lambasted for not being honest with their fans - see Bernie's column in the Post today. I always want honesty even if it is not what I like hearing. This whole situation reminds me of when the teacher has a pupil that has much talent and upside but for whatever the reason he/she seems somewhat unmotivated and mostly gives the basic effort. The teacher pushes that kid to perform better to their talent to the point that the kids gets frustrated. Now the kid has two was to go, he can keep trying and eventually succeed or go home and tell his/her parents that the teacher does not like me and is picking on me. Fortunately, the kids on our team did the former and they will ultimately be better players and people for that.

As far as RM's supposed negativity impacting the team's performance and lack of confidence - during the SHS game, there was point when RM was talking to KL and KL put his arm on RM's shoulder as the instructions were being given to him. When I saw that, I knew that KL was the student who was understanding that the teacher only had his best interest in mind. Another example of this was when Luke at the SIUC game was bleeding at the end and it was reported that he told RM that " I am not coming out" - if Luke had been beaten down so badly that he was this whipped puppy that some would lead you to believe that RM has done to the team with is "bad mouthing" Luke would have been happy to get out of the game. But, no, he had no lack of confidence he wanted to stay and was not the least bit afraid to be in there during this crucial time. My point is RM has not torn these kids apart - thank goodness they are mature and astute enough to understand him even though some of us may not be.

This now so famous "drive and kick" change in the offense that took place the other night - as I and others have said, all coaches have multiple looks to their overall offensive and defensive schemes. To righteously claim that RM has now "seen the light" and changed his ways is simply comical. To say/think that you have coached some little league games and are now able to read the mind of RM and know that he has scrapped his original plans only reinforces that silliness. RM has allows said that "time" is what he is missing most with this team. He has not been able to teach them everything he wants them to know and he has even said perhaps he was wrong to schedule as many games in such a short period of time early in the season because of this "time" issue. We had a week off before the SIUC game, RM tweaked his offensive approach for the game to meet SIUC defensive style - nothing new here just what coaches do and does not mean that he has abandoned his overall approach. If we had been playing some other team he might not have even implemented the "drive and kick" at all. This only supports what RM has been saying all along - he needed time to teach. Since there were some many games with very few days in between before this, he could not make the adjustments he wanted - simple as that. (Skip your post above is accurate)

Finally, to those of you who thought this team was a NCAA qualifier - it was not last year when we had IV so why would you think it so this year. To hang your hat on RM coaching us to 3-5 more wins with la team that was missing IV this year was not realistic. This team is not overly talented - it has enough talent to be competitive most nights but that is where it stops. With a little luck this team could have made the NIT last year or maybe even sneaked in to the NCAA but it would have and will take a "little luck".

I think this debate has run its course. We can agree to disagree. (by the way, I coached with D1 players back in a prior life in the military!)

[slufanskip]

I think this debate has run its course. We can agree to disagree. (by the way, I coached with D1 players back in a prior life in the military!)

I don't know what your experience is or when you coached in the military, but I played on 2 different base teams from '85 to '90 and I wouldn't even begin to classify it as D1. So unless you played at a different time when it was indeed different and maybe it was, or you coached at the command level ....

When I was in I would classify the base teams as maybe Div 2 or in some cases Div 3. I'd say we would have given UMSL a good game. In 4 years the only player I know of that played D1 and that was Norris Coleman who was a decent player at K State.

Someone I think it was the all knowledgable Hoops 88 who was talking about Oklahoma City College, I played on a team that beat them in a scrimmage in '89.

[Paladin]

Hello. SIU fan chiming in here.

With all that you have on your side for the future (new recruits, Chaifetz, Majerus, adjusting to a new system), you can look toward the future and find it's very bright. Also, you think this board complains, take a look at Saluki Talk over the last few days.

You will be fine, trust me.

[moytoy12]

Someone I think it was the all knowledgable Hoops 88 who was talking about Oklahoma City College, I played on a team that beat them in a scrimmage in '89.

FWIW - OCU (Oklahoma City University) has been a strong basketball school for a while; beating them in a scrimmage is pretty impressive. However, the Oklahoma City area has a number of small schools with similar sounding names.

[ACE]

Call me crazy, but I think RM might just know a little more about x's and o's than the great Billikan.

I also have to question anybody's basketball judgement who thinks this team has enough talent.

Sodie left us a roster with just one point guard (DP) and that pg is very limited offensively. Plus, he left us a team with ONLY two bigs - AK and BH - two guys who barely saw the court last season. That' 3 of the 5 positions on the floor with major question marks and zero depth.

Those of us who were complaining about Sodie's recruiting last year were right. Those who dismissed those criticisms at the time, rather than simply admitting Sodie's failings, are now creating unrealistic expectations for Majerus during his first seaon in order to try to save face. Just admit you were wrong, move on and look forward to a much brighter future for our team. The negative stuff some of you guys have been spewing is pathetic.

[cheeseman]

Cheeseman, it is almost scary how much I have agreed with your recent posts.

This only shows that most people have more in common than not. If only we could remember that most of the time.

[cheeseman]

SLU beat a bad SIUC team and now RM is transforming his team ? They're supposed to beat SIUC !

I never said the transformation of this team is complete. All I said was that this was one big step towards the ultimate goal. Now I know SIUC is not the team they thought they had so far but they did beat the #24 team in the nation the other day so they are not chop liver.

[billiken_roy]

Hello. SIU fan chiming in here.

With all that you have on your side for the future (new recruits, Chaifetz, Majerus, adjusting to a new system), you can look toward the future and find it's very bright. Also, you think this board complains, take a look at Saluki Talk over the last few days.

You will be fine, trust me.

my favorite line at saluki talk was by ljparr7, "Randall was mugged by #15 all night."

someone needs to let lj know that barry only played 12 minutes.

[Paladin]

I never said the transformation of this team is complete. All I said was that this was one big step towards the ultimate goal. Now I know SIUC is not the team they thought they had so far but they did beat the #24 team in the nation the other day so they are not chop liver.

There are rational people there but they being drowned out by Kool-Aid drinkers hitting the deck and jumping ship.

[brianstl]

There are rational people there but they being drowned out by Kool-Aid drinkers hitting the deck and jumping ship.

ST is normally a great board. You guys do an awesome job with the board.

[Paladin]

ST is normally a great board. You guys do an awesome job with the board.

We haven't had to deal with this kind of thing either. The fact that we had this meltdown after losing to you guys is a by product of our lofty expectations coming into this year, fueled by media hype among other things.

[brianstl]

We haven't had to deal with this kind of thing either. The fact that we had this meltdown after losing to you guys is a by product of our lofty expectations coming into this year, fueled by media hype among other things.

It has been a long time since you guys have been sitting at .500 this late in the season.

[slufanskip]

FWIW - OCU (Oklahoma City University) has been a strong basketball school for a while; beating them in a scrimmage is pretty impressive. However, the Oklahoma City area has a number of small schools with similar sounding names.

It's been a long time, but I think the team we beat was called Oklahoma City College, I remember there was a lot of hype about them, even that they had won a Nat'l championship. They had a really small quick pg who relegated me to the bench pretty quickly. I started almost every game for Tinker AFB in the '89 - '90 season (yes I was much smaller, about 70 pounds) but in that game I turned the ball over about 3 times in the 1st 7-8 minutes and we went to the guy who backed me up who was also small and quick, but couldn't shoot and wouldn't pass, but he could beat the press and he did. I played about 15 minutes at the 2. I remmember they were very athletic, but didn't shoot the ball that well and were sloppy.

[moytoy12]

It's been a long time, but I think the team we beat was called Oklahoma City College, I remember there was a lot of hype about them, even that they had won a Nat'l championship. They had a really small quick pg who relegated me to the bench pretty quickly. I started almost every game for Tinker AFB in the '89 - '90 season (yes I was much smaller, about 70 pounds) but in that game I turned the ball over about 3 times in the 1st 7-8 minutes and we went to the guy who backed me up who was also small and quick, but couldn't shoot and wouldn't pass, but he could beat the press and he did. I played about 15 minutes at the 2. I remmember they were very athletic, but didn't shoot the ball that well and were sloppy.

Doesn't sound like OCU, but regardless, the OKC area has a number of nice little NAIA schools and community colleges. FYI, my dad worked out at tinker for over 30 years.

[TheA_Bomb]

Oh yeah well I was once in charge of a former Texas Tech PF he was like 6'7 280 lbs. We didn't do basketball just coordination deep fires, much less complicated. He dropped out of Texas Tech after playing in 2 exhibition games because he wasn't going to make grades. I had to discipline him one day and thought he was going to hit me, I dared him to, that silver bar would've blocked it, I hope.

I often wondered how many of the guys I played pick up with on Post could hoop at the college level. I think a few of them could. We also had a former Nebraska DB (back when that was a good thing) in that Battalion and I can honestly say the officers spanked a team that he was on in Flag Football in Thanksgiving 03'. So if you guys have any football questions I am your man.

Anyway, Billikan stop bringing down our Program with your negativity. B-Roy stop being a contrarian.

I'll be in the house DEC 29th for the game. See you guys then.

[moytoy12]

Oh yeah well I was once in charge of a former Texas Tech PF he was like 6'7 280 lbs. We didn't do basketball just coordination deep fires, much less complicated. He dropped out of Texas Tech after playing in 2 exhibition games because he wasn't going to make grades. I had to discipline him one day and thought he was going to hit me, I dared him to, that silver bar would've blocked it, I hope.

I often wondered how many of the guys I played pick up with on Post could hoop at the college level. I think a few of them could. We also had a former Nebraska DB (back when that was a good thing) in that Battalion and I can honestly say the officers spanked a team that he was on in Flag Football in Thanksgiving 03'. So if you guys have any football questions I am your man.

Anyway, Billikan stop bringing down our Program with your negativity. B-Roy stop being a contrarian.

I'll be in the house DEC 29th for the game. See you guys then.

Good stuff A_bomb. I think i remember that FF game on Thanksgiving of ought-3. It should have been an ESPN classic.

[billiken_roy]

B-Roy stop being a contrarian.

I'll be in the house DEC 29th for the game. See you guys then.

hey as long as lisch and liddell are turned loose like the last 44 minutes i am fine. but if they have to go back to hoosier ball where tommie and kevin are forced to look to the paint first every time they touch the ball, i'll be screaming again. tommie and kevin are both good enough and unselfish enough to make those decisions in the flow of the game, and to put limitations on them is akin to taking away possessions.

think about it. if say each player is forced to take a shot clock shot 3 times and they each passed up better opportunities earlier in that possession, that is the same as giving away about 10 points a game. 10 points wins missouri state and sammy davis state.

play to the strength of the team. we did saturday nite and it looked like a whole new team. the fact that majerus admittedly practiced that last week is extremely encouraging. no it is down right exciting. now if the coaches can spend xmas break doing extra credit time with our two best freshmen that are supposedly behind in majerus basketball class 101, and thus get them to the point where they can indeed contribute as well, that would be a great xmas present to the billiken fandom.

[Clock_Tower]

I think this debate has run its course. We can agree to disagree. (by the way, I coached with D1 players back in a prior life in the military!)

Like you. Have not given up on this season. For what it's worth, I care more about effort and improvement than I do post-season. Face it. There has not been much post-season for our Bills. If we need to take 1 step backward to then move forward 2 steps, so be it. Everything is relative. Some of my posts, as well as others, may be a little too harsh. At the same time, our Mom & Pop program is over and so is our coddling of our players simply because they are Billikens. No one on this Board or RM are calling them out individually in public like they were pro-athletes, and hence, fair game. Our Bills do have talent. We have one of the best backcourts around - certainly the best at SLU in awhile. Had this been any other year with any other coach, I'd be saying we cannot waste this year - and the talents of TL and KL - since we patiently waited for them to mature to Juniors (although they were still good as Freshman) and we might not have such talent for a few more years. You mentioned several times about the money you have donated and the millions spent on RM. I share your demands and expectations for a real good basketball program at SLU. I don't mean to suggest that we throw TL and KL under the bus and waste this season, but instead have realistically pointed out that we won only 19 games last year with Ian and were not even considered for being a "bubble" team. Thought we improved at the end of the year only to be blown out by GW!! To expect this year's team to be marketedly better (not to root and hope that we are) is an insult to last year's team and Brad and also an unrealistic expectation for RM. By expecting RM to change his proven approach, to run Brad's old offense because it is familiar with the players - which didn't get us to where we wanted to be these past 5 years - and to somehow win 23 to 25 games and make the tourney this year with our present talent is just not realistic. Also, I don't want to possibly delay our future success by not implementing the offense now. Remember that RM is not a young man and is not in perfect health so he will only be our coach for so long. We can only hope for 6 or more years - this year being one of them. Also, expect one of our assistant coaches (if not both) to leave for a head coaching job after this year or next year. The future is now and am pleased that RM will give TL and KL some talent (albeit Freshmen) next year. Brad never did. Isn't that what TL and KL really want - a chance at a really good team next year. Don't put me down in the camp of saying these 5 are "young" or "only freshmen." With TL and KL were quite good as Freshmen and expect some of the incoming 5 to make as much as an impact as TL and KL did. Also, expect RM to get a least 1 really good JUCO next year to help them. With KL and TL leading the way, and with BE coming back for his senior year, the new recruits will not need to be the stars from day one. In contrast, TL and KL were required to be the stars from day 1 because we had no other real choices.

I am quite optomistic about SLU basketball. Am very supportive of our coach. And also am quite pleased with the response of our players to RM and all the change he has brought. TL could have quit. Not only did he not, but I think he is playing a much better overall game now than he did under Brad. His effort is better this year than last. KL had a superb game against SIUC. I truly believe RM knows how much he can push and how to motivate guys. Brad said all the right things last year but TL's defense did not improve and IV remained a mystery all season long. RM has definitely made a splash, been hard-nosed, has made the real statements about his players and this season, but the team is giving full effort and is showing signs of improvement - my primary concerns.