Majerus Criticism -- My Thoughts

[davidnark]

I haven't had time to post much this season, but I have read a lot of the recent posts. I am absolutely taken aback by the harsh criticism of Majerus. The team is 6-3 and has basically won every game it was supposed to and had lost every game it was supposed to. Husak and Polk have probably improved from last year, and Liddell and Lisch are struggling out of the gate this year (in a system that doesn't give them the unlimited discretion they had under Brad). This team has some talent, but it is neither deep nor extraordinary talented in any regard. Implementing a new system just isn't easy. I think if you look back at the record after nine games during the first seasons of Soderberg, Romar, and Spoonhour, I don't think you will find a better record.

For those who are upset about Majerus's outspoken criticism of his team, listen to some of Brad's post-game quotes last year--they are remarkably similar. Also, I have noticed that Majerus's recent criticisms target teh entire team, not any individual player. That is completely appropriate even if it hurts fans' feelings.

Finally, I still have high hopes for this season and intend to judge Majerus on a full season's body of work. I am already impressed by the quality of defense he has implemented. The many shot-clock violations today were a sign of great defensive coaching, and Polk and Husak look like entirely different defensive players. However, what really excites me is the future of this program. For years we have been seeking talent and depth up front and a solid point guard to run things; only months after signing up at SLU Rick appears to have fulfilled these dreams.

Stop the complaining!!!!!

[jjray]

>>Stop the complaining!!!!!<<

Seriously David, you really are "shocked" to see people complain after our Billikens get destroyed by 40 @ Kent State? A team that lost to Detroit? This is a message board. That was a horrible loss by any measure. Fans complain.

[kevinfootes]

I haven't had time to post much this season, but I have read a lot of the recent posts. I am absolutely taken aback by the harsh criticism of Majerus. The team is 6-3 and has basically won every game it was supposed to and had lost every game it was supposed to. Husak and Polk have probably improved from last year, and Liddell and Lisch are struggling out of the gate this year (in a system that doesn't give them the unlimited discretion they had under Brad). This team has some talent, but it is neither deep nor extraordinary talented in any regard. Implementing a new system just isn't easy. I think if you look back at the record after nine games during the first seasons of Soderberg, Romar, and Spoonhour, I don't think you will find a better record.

For those who are upset about Majerus's outspoken criticism of his team, listen to some of Brad's post-game quotes last year--they are remarkably similar. Also, I have noticed that Majerus's recent criticisms target teh entire team, not any individual player. That is completely appropriate even if it hurts fans' feelings.

Finally, I still have high hopes for this season anSeriould intend to judge Majerus on a full season's body of work. I am already impressed by the quality of defense he has implemented. The many shot-clock violations today were a sign of great defensive coaching, and Polk and Husak look like entirely different defensive players. However, what really excites me is the future of this program. For years we have been seeking talent and depth up front and a solid point guard to run things; only months after signing up at SLU Rick appears to have fulfilled these dreams.

Stop the complaining!!!!!

SLU gets doubled up by Kent St. and then barely clips a team with only one win at home and you're satisfied? This doesn't really look like a team with postseason aspirations. Were you "anSeriould" satisfied with the defense in the Kent State game?

I think RM will get it done in the long run. I'm just bummed out that this edition looks so weak right now.

[davidnark]

SLU gets doubled up by Kent St. and then barely clips a team with only one win at home and you're satisfied? This doesn't really look like a team with postseason aspirations. Were you "anSeriould" satisfied with the defense in the Kent State game?

I think RM will get it done in the long run. I'm just bummed out that this edition looks so weak right now.

I had the benefit of being completely removed from all media during the Kent State debacle (I was on a business trip away from the mainland), but it was one frickin game. Majerus is trying to turn around what is essentially a decade of down basketball, and everyone is ready to write him off because his team got creamed against a good mid-major team on the road. I am just trying to add some perspective to the insanity.

[kevinfootes]

I had the benefit of being completely removed from all media during the Kent State debacle (I was on a business trip away from the mainland), but it was one frickin game. Majerus is trying to turn around what is essentially a decade of down basketball, and everyone is ready to write him off because his team got creamed against a good mid-major team on the road. I am just trying to add some perspective to the insanity.

I don't think giving up more points in the first half than you score in the entire game is "one frickin game". That's pretty bad.

AND, who is giving up on RM? That's a b.s. exaggeration on your part. Get a grip! Show me a post where I've said anything other than RM will get it done in the long run.

[kshoe]

I don't think giving up more points in the first half than you score in the entire game is "one frickin game". That's pretty bad.

AND, who is giving up on RM? That's a b.s. exaggeration on your part. Get a grip! Show me a post where I've said anything other than RM will get it done in the long run.

Is it two friggin games?

[kevinfootes]

Is it two friggin games?

Even in the awful A-10, how do you think SLU will finish based on he way they've starterd the season? I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not confident of even NIT for this bunch. What's your take?

[pooch1918]

Even in the awful A-10, how do you think SLU will finish based on he way they've starterd the season? I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not confident of even NIT for this bunch. What's your take?

Looking at the remaining schedule, my guess is in the 20--11 range...which wasn't good enough for the NIT last year.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Looking at the remaining schedule, my guess is in the 20--11 range...which wasn't good enough for the NIT last year.

March 15, 2008. That's the game this Billikens squad must build towards. If they win that game, they'll play in a post-season tournament. Anything less, and they'll be watching television.

[JMM28]

I don't think giving up more points in the first half than you score in the entire game is "one frickin game". That's pretty bad.

AND, who is giving up on RM? That's a b.s. exaggeration on your part. Get a grip! Show me a post where I've said anything other than RM will get it done in the long run.

Why won't people drop this kent state game. nothing good has ever happened at kent state.

If you lose by 40 or lose by 4, it counts the exact same way. 1 Loss

[cheeseman]

Why won't people drop this kent state game. nothing good has ever happened at kent state.

If you lose by 40 or lose by 4, it counts the exact same way. 1 Loss

What I saw during the LBSU game was a team that had not quit. That was all I needed to see after the Kent State debacle. I am still thinking 500 this year but who knows.

[billiken_roy]

I had the benefit of being completely removed from all media during the Kent State debacle (I was on a business trip away from the mainland), but it was one frickin game. Majerus is trying to turn around what is essentially a decade of down basketball, and everyone is ready to write him off because his team got creamed against a good mid-major team on the road. I am just trying to add some perspective to the insanity.

questioning strange results and behavior isnt "writing" anyone off. a lot of us just want some short term satisfaction as well as the known that long term rick majerus will win big.

[Billikan]

I haven't had time to post much this season, but I have read a lot of the recent posts. I am absolutely taken aback by the harsh criticism of Majerus. The team is 6-3 and has basically won every game it was supposed to and had lost every game it was supposed to. Husak and Polk have probably improved from last year, and Liddell and Lisch are struggling out of the gate this year (in a system that doesn't give them the unlimited discretion they had under Brad). This team has some talent, but it is neither deep nor extraordinary talented in any regard. Implementing a new system just isn't easy. I think if you look back at the record after nine games during the first seasons of Soderberg, Romar, and Spoonhour, I don't think you will find a better record.

For those who are upset about Majerus's outspoken criticism of his team, listen to some of Brad's post-game quotes last year--they are remarkably similar. Also, I have noticed that Majerus's recent criticisms target teh entire team, not any individual player. That is completely appropriate even if it hurts fans' feelings.

Finally, I still have high hopes for this season and intend to judge Majerus on a full season's body of work. I am already impressed by the quality of defense he has implemented. The many shot-clock violations today were a sign of great defensive coaching, and Polk and Husak look like entirely different defensive players. However, what really excites me is the future of this program. For years we have been seeking talent and depth up front and a solid point guard to run things; only months after signing up at SLU Rick appears to have fulfilled these dreams.

Stop the complaining!!!!!

You missed the Kent State game which was one of the worst performances against a mediocre team in modern Billiken history and if you went to yesterday's game you have to admit that this offense will not be good enough against any decent team. Those shot clock violations were because the team we were playing often did not have a clue as to what it was doing on offense. That was a bad team and we were very lucky to win the game. I am always an optimist but every single game this year we have been absolutely terrible in the first half on offense. Many of the teams in the conference are playing much better and have some nice wins. Your statement that you "still have high hopes for this season" would suggest at least the NIT and possibly the NCAA. That statement is amazing to me based upon watching this team play. I sure hope you are right!

[kevinfootes]

questioning strange results and behavior isnt "writing" anyone off. a lot of us just want some short term satisfaction as well as the known that long term rick majerus will win big.

I've yet to see a post where someone has "written off" RM. I'm with you on this one.

[davidnark]

You missed the Kent State game which was one of the worst performances against a mediocre team in modern Billiken history and if you went to yesterday's game you have to admit that this offense will not be good enough against any decent team.

The offense didn't look great yesterday, but Majerus's offensive system and his "do's and don'ts" are quite a change from Brad's system. It is going to take some time for the guys to "get it." That being said, the offense yesterday created a lot of good looks for the right guys. Liddell, Lisch, and Eckerle are going to hit those open shots down the road. I agree that this team is unlikely to look spectacular on offense this year due to the lack of interior post threat, 3-point specialist, and high-flying athletes; however, after Majerus gets over a week of straight practice in 3 of 4 weeks in late December and early January I expect things to get a lot better. I don't know what my expecations are for this year's team, but I certainly expect it to look a lot better by the time coference team rolls around, and I am estatic about Majerus's recruiting success.

P.S. I know Kentucky fans are going through the same growing pains as Gillispie implements his system. (They lost to an unknown team, were easily handled at home by UNC, and struggled to beat another low-major team at home.)

[billiken_roy]

The offense didn't look great yesterday, but Majerus's offensive system and his "do's and don'ts" are quite a change from Brad's system. It is going to take some time for the guys to "get it." That being said, the offense yesterday created a lot of good looks for the right guys. Liddell, Lisch, and Eckerle are going to hit those open shots down the road. I agree that this team is unlikely to look spectacular on offense this year due to the lack of interior post threat, 3-point specialist, and high-flying athletes; however, after Majerus gets over a week of straight practice in 3 of 4 weeks in late December and early January I expect things to get a lot better. I don't know what my expecations are for this year's team, but I certainly expect it to look a lot better by the time coference team rolls around, and I am estatic about Majerus's recruiting success.

P.S. I know Kentucky fans are going through the same growing pains as Gillispie implements his system. (They lost to an unknown team, were easily handled at home by UNC, and struggled to beat another low-major team at home.)

david, i like to think i am somewhat more of a student of the game than the typical fan. but for the life of me, i dont see the "quite a change from Brad's system". could you detail for us that havent recognized it yet exactly what these extreme differences are? thanks

[cheeseman]

You missed the Kent State game which was one of the worst performances against a mediocre team in modern Billiken history and if you went to yesterday's game you have to admit that this offense will not be good enough against any decent team. Those shot clock violations were because the team we were playing often did not have a clue as to what it was doing on offense. That was a bad team and we were very lucky to win the game. I am always an optimist but every single game this year we have been absolutely terrible in the first half on offense. Many of the teams in the conference are playing much better and have some nice wins. Your statement that you "still have high hopes for this season" would suggest at least the NIT and possibly the NCAA. That statement is amazing to me based upon watching this team play. I sure hope you are right!

Kent State is not a mediocre team - they will probably be in the NCAA tourney this year barring any major injuries or unexpected upsets against them.

[davidnark]

david, i like to think i am somewhat more of a student of the game than the typical fan. but for the life of me, i dont see the "quite a change from Brad's system". could you detail for us that havent recognized it yet exactly what these extreme differences are? thanks

Last year, Brad ran the four-out, one-in offense with the intent to drive plays through the middle of the floor. By contrast, Majerus is running the offense through the outside and baseline. Soderberg's motion offense also placed a much lesser emphasis on player's coming off screens to score and used much fewer screens in general. Last year, Brad's two favorite plays were clear out the middle for Ian or clear out the middle for Liddell or Lisch to create their own offense one-on-one. There are other much more subtle, but eqully important changes regarding which plays/passes/shots Brad complimented and critcized and Majerus compliments and criticizes. In practical terms, a guy like Lisch spent over two years being told to penerate from the top of the key or shoot the ball off the dribble from the outside; now Kevin is having to appease a coach who wants him to do totally differnt things in the exact same situation. It is no one's fault, but it is going to take time for the players to adapt and get comfortable.

I would encourage you to ask the assistant coaches at the next Billiken Club meeting what kind of things the players are being asked to do diffently this year. I am sure they could articulate the differences much more eloquently.

[billiken_roy]

Kent State is not a mediocre team - they will probably be in the NCAA tourney this year barring any major injuries or unexpected upsets against them.

cheeseman, we shouldnt be losing to ucla and memphis by 41 points let alone a good mid major like kent state.

[billiken_roy]

Last year, Brad ran the four-out, one-in offense with the intent to drive plays through the middle of the floor. By contrast, Majerus is running the offense through the outside and baseline. Soderberg's motion offense also placed a much lesser emphasis on player's coming off screens to score and used much fewer screens in general. Last year, Brad's two favorite plays were clear out the middle for Ian or clear out the middle for Liddell or Lisch to create their own offense one-on-one. There are other much more subtle, but eqully important changes regarding which plays/passes/shots Brad complimented and critcized and Majerus compliments and criticizes. In practical terms, a guy like Lisch spent over two years being told to penerate from the top of the key or shoot the ball off the dribble from the outside; now Kevin is having to appease a coach who wants him to do totally differnt things in the exact same situation. It is no one's fault, but it is going to take time for the players to adapt and get comfortable.

I would encourage you to ask the assistant coaches at the next Billiken Club meeting what kind of things the players are being asked to do diffently this year. I am sure they could articulate the differences much more eloquently.

last year i sat through two straight soderberg practices where all they did was talk about screening and the players coming off those screens.

i will agree with the four out and one in, but moving one of the out to the low post really only opens up the outside for kevin and tommie more than what they had last year. and the screens between the two inside players also should be creating more back doors and layups. pretty basic stuff that kids see in 8th grade david. i seriously doubt that those changes have our offensive mindset that f'd up. try again.

[dewey33]

last year i sat through two straight soderberg practices where all they did was talk about screening and the players coming off those screens.

i will agree with the four out and one in, but moving one of the out to the low post really only opens up the outside for kevin and tommie more than what they had last year. and the screens between the two inside players also should be creating more back doors and layups. pretty basic stuff that kids see in 8th grade david. i seriously doubt that those changes have our offensive mindset that f'd up. try again.

Regardless of how you want to spin it, the adjustmsnt problems we have seen recently have less to do with WHAT is being taught and more to do with HOW it is taught and WHO is teaching

[davidnark]

last year i sat through two straight soderberg practices where all they did was talk about screening and the players coming off those screens.

i will agree with the four out and one in, but moving one of the out to the low post really only opens up the outside for kevin and tommie more than what they had last year. and the screens between the two inside players also should be creating more back doors and layups. pretty basic stuff that kids see in 8th grade david. i seriously doubt that those changes have our offensive mindset that f'd up. try again.

Roy, I don't know if me or anyone else is going to be able to convince you that the players' are learning an entirely new way of doing things, but it is a fact whether you admit it or not. Majerus and Soderberg are about as similar as you and me.

[Hardball]

Roy, I don't know if me or anyone else is going to be able to convince you that the players' are learning an entirely new way of doing things, but it is a fact whether you admit it or not. Majerus and Soderberg are about as similar as you and me.

Roy where is your last years mantra of patience?

Your were willing to wait 5+ years to get to the NCAA’s but now you can’t seem to wait more than 6 games for results.

Give it time Roy. Remember we all hate starting over!!!!

[jjray]

Roy, I don't know if me or anyone else is going to be able to convince you that the players' are learning an entirely new way of doing things, but it is a fact whether you admit it or not. Majerus and Soderberg are about as similar as you and me.

I would have to believe your statement is true but no one can really give it an honest assessment as we are barred from practice. Our only view of the system is games. Brad ran a motion offense to create open jump shots off of screens. Majerus runs a motion offense off of screens but the players also appear to be taught to look for passes to cutters before they shoot. The positioning of the screens is different. Where Majerus wants the player to go off the screen (i.e., sharp cut to the basket) is different. It doesn't seem like rocket science or anything that should take a season to understand. The defense is definitely different but that is not where the Billikens have struggled. They look lost on offense early and often and only stay in games based upon superior defense.

[billiken_roy]

Roy where is your last years mantra of patience?

Your were willing to wait 5+ years to get to the NCAA’s but now you can’t seem to wait more than 6 games for results.

Give it time Roy. Remember we all hate starting over!!!!

hardball, i was preaching patience when we had a first time d-1 head coach with 5 years experience and an asst coaching staff that had zero years of head coaching experience, and financial support that was probably a tenth of what it is now.

now we have a hall of fame coach that has two head coaches with as much head coaching experience as soderberg had plus a budget to run his program that is far far far better funded. for that, i expect at minimum a repeat of last year. i hope we win 20 games.

and you are right hardball, i hate starting over. didnt think we were with the likes of rick majerus, but apparently we were. i guess i can say i told you so then. thanks for reminding me.