BM stirring the pot a bit . . .

[jp18]

Check out Bernie's latest Bernie Bits. It is just up on stltoday.com. He writes about postings on this board. You can guess what it is about.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/co...70?OpenDocument

[Basketbill]

Check out Bernie's latest Bernie Bits. It is just up on stltoday.com. He writes about postings on this board. You can guess what it is about.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/co...70?OpenDocument

Just goes to show you what kind of individual Bernie is!

[thetorch]

What an ass.

I knew this would get out the second it was posted. I'll call into his show this week and make him address it. Nobody can really know if Tommie's father really made that post, least of all Bernie.

Then again somebody on the staff is now reading this board. I really thought Soderberg completely ignored it. It appears that Majerus and his crew keep tabs on us now.

[TheA_Bomb]

What makes you say that RM's staff is keeping tabs on the board?

[thetorch]

What makes you say that RM's staff is keeping tabs on the board?

Maybe not but I believe Bernie will be Majerus sounding board in the media.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Maybe not but I believe Bernie will be Majerus sounding board in the media.

Man, oh man, but are we going to get some traffic here today! Steve, do you get any kickbacks for hits? If not, you probably wish you did!

Do you really think Miklasz is representing Majerus in the media? I don't. I think Bernie's views are Bernie's, and Bernie's alone.

Coach Majerus worked for ESPN, so I imagine he understands the communications landscape. I doubt he feels threatened by this website outside of the need for closing practices so that what he's trying to do with his team doesn't get out here. The school and athletics department and coaching staff wouldn't want to try to shut down this site (or the boards at billikenreport or stltoday or the a-10 board) because there are boosters here. The school doesn't want to alienate the boosters, because there's not much of a program without boosters.

TDELL doesn't represent Tommie Liddell III. TDELL represents Tommie Liddell Jr. Just because his father is complaining doesn't mean #25 is complaining. It happens more at the high school level, but practically every player's parents believe their kid should be playing more, shooting more, getting fewer fouls called on him, etc. That doesn't mean Liddell III subscribes that thinking.

[slu72]

Man, oh man, but are we going to get some traffic here today! Steve, do you get any kickbacks for hits? If not, you probably wish you did!

Do you really think Miklasz is representing Majerus in the media? I don't. I think Bernie's views are Bernie's, and Bernie's alone.

Coach Majerus worked for ESPN, so I imagine he understands the communications landscape. I doubt he feels threatened by this website outside of the need for closing practices so that what he's trying to do with his team doesn't get out here. The school and athletics department and coaching staff wouldn't want to try to shut down this site (or the boards at billikenreport or stltoday or the a-10 board) because there are boosters here. The school doesn't want to alienate the boosters, because there's not much of a program without boosters.

TDELL doesn't represent Tommie Liddell III. TDELL represents Tommie Liddell Jr. Just because his father is complaining doesn't mean #25 is complaining. It happens more at the high school level, but practically every player's parents believe their kid should be playing more, shooting more, getting fewer fouls called on him, etc. That doesn't mean Liddell III subscribes that thinking.

I found this to be very irresponsible of BM. Quoting an internet board in his column? We really have no idea if Tdell is TL's dad. He seems to be from past posts but to cite it in a paper as fact has to cross some journalistic line. The only way BM should have opined about that post is if he called TL's dad and got verification he actually wrote it. To me this is akin to BM telling some 14 year old girl she ought to go ahead and meet with a 42 year old pedophile chat room whacko because he says he's 14, a national merit scholar, an eagle boy scout, and president of his teens for Jesus club.

[pooch1918]

Bernie directly quoting a message board is questionable definitely...but that's a topic for a COM 101 class...what I'm more interested in is this: What IS going on with TL and Majerus? I've read quotes where Majerus says of TL, "I don't see a pro out there..." Obviously he's taking a tough love approach...but I just hope we're seeing a Coach Norman Dale from "Hoosiers" thing...where he got Jimmy Chitwood to play by acting as if he didn't care if he did or not...to this point, in a way, I agree with TDELL, whether that's TL's dad or not....he's right...Tommie showed amazing flashes the last two years....now, he's looking more like another Virgil Cobben.

[slufanskip]

Bernie directly quoting a message board is questionable definitely...but that's a topic for a COM 101 class...what I'm more interested in is this: What IS going on with TL and Majerus? I've read quotes where Majerus says of TL, "I don't see a pro out there..." Obviously he's taking a tough love approach...but I just hope we're seeing a Coach Norman Dale from "Hoosiers" thing...where he got Jimmy Chitwood to play by acting as if he didn't care if he did or not...to this point, in a way, I agree with TDELL, whether that's TL's dad or not....he's right...Tommie showed amazing flashes the last two years....now, he's looking more like another Virgil Cobben.

what?

[satrap]

I was pretty amazed to see the quote in the Bits this AM. Very amazed actually. It will definitely get the radio talk-show circuit jump-started for the season.

Personally, I loved and miss Brad. Not because I think he's a better coach, of course, but because he was good enough, got done wrong, and we wouldn't have to listen to the constant preaching about the virtuosity of RM, since such a thing simply doesn't exist in college hoops (perhaps with the exception of Bruce Weber).

I don't want to start an argument obviously, because BS is a faded memory by this point, but this probably is being whispered in the Lisch household too, if I had to guess....

[Clock_Tower]

Bernie directly quoting a message board is questionable definitely...but that's a topic for a COM 101 class...what I'm more interested in is this: What IS going on with TL and Majerus? I've read quotes where Majerus says of TL, "I don't see a pro out there..." Obviously he's taking a tough love approach...but I just hope we're seeing a Coach Norman Dale from "Hoosiers" thing...where he got Jimmy Chitwood to play by acting as if he didn't care if he did or not...to this point, in a way, I agree with TDELL, whether that's TL's dad or not....he's right...Tommie showed amazing flashes the last two years....now, he's looking more like another Virgil Cobben.

RM is right. In my humble opinion, as I do not intend to place myself on a level anywhere close to RM, I don't see pro out there as well with TL. He has more talent than some pros but he is not there yet. Not to be considered a knock on TL, but he came to SLU/college ball with an extra year of high school which, by all accounts, served him well in all respects. Still, his outside shot was not there, his strength not there, defense not there and his ball handling also not there. After his freshman year, he developed his shot (hard to do since even Larry Hughes still lack an outside shot) and added some weight/strength. Starting this, what could have been his senior year, his strength/size is not that required for the pro game and his ball handling also is not there.

With the above said, there is hope that TL will become a pro. He certainly is our best/most talented player and our best chance to become a pro player. Again, IMHO, he would never have become a pro under Sodie. If he listens to RM, works on his defense (anyone wonder but not want to speculate whey Brad's pack defense - which had worked - failed his last two years?), improves his ball handling and continues to add significan weight/strength, TL might become the pro which he, his dad and this Board wants him to be.

Hang in there and hope you make it TL.

[pooch1918]

Our Star Coach doesn't care for our Star Player.

This is a problem.

[saluki762]

While it is probably irresponsible of BM to be quoting a message board. It is even more irresponsible for parents of team members to be posting on message boards, especially if it is going to be a post slamming the new HOF coach. TDELL has probably done more to hurt his son's career by that post than help it especially since the media has decided to run with it.

Brett's mom posting that Brett has signed and TDELL's posting last year of BS's firing are ok, it is when parents start to share opinion that they have gone too far. If this doesn't stop right away, this TL III situation could end up being pretty bad.

[aj_arete]

I'm a fan of Miklasz and this tactic has been used lately in media. Let's wake up people and get with the times. In the past, journalistic classes wouldn't support this behavior, but that's 20th century thinking.

I think it's unfortunate that TDELL chooses to criticize a Hall of Fame coach, but that's just a sign of our culture today. We're more interested in how we look, rather than playing to win. I thought his comment was telling when he said running picks and screens doesn't take talent. While that might be true, it is a key ingredient to playing winning basketball. It shows the willingness to give up your body and play unselfishly. It's a good thing he didn't send his kid to Bobby Knight...

[webster wizard]

What an ass.

I knew this would get out the second it was posted. I'll call into his show this week and make him address it. Nobody can really know if Tommie's father really made that post, least of all Bernie.

Then again somebody on the staff is now reading this board. I really thought Soderberg completely ignored it. It appears that Majerus and his crew keep tabs on us now.

Gentlemen, it doesn't matter if Liddell's dad wrote the post or not. The facts are that Liddell's play and his apparent inability to abide by team rules continues to be problematic for SLU. Think back to last season--Liddell's poor ball handling and judgement cost the Billikens at least two wins in the late going. Soderberg lost his job because he let it happen more then once. A simple review of last years films was obviously enough for RM to realize that he had to deal with Liddell early and he has done so.

[Billikan]

Bernie is a jerk who can't wait to print something contraversial even if it is not verified. No one from a decent journalism school would go with a story based upon an anonymous post on a internet board without some independent verification of the story. He will never change. By the way, he sat right in front of me at a game recently and he looks like he has put on at least 100 more pounds. He is immense, so much so that he makes Majerus look small next to him. That can not be healthy!

With regard to Tommie, I think a lot of people on this board have been star struck with him since he arrived and the hype made him seem like a player to go early to the pros. He clearly is a special talent and I thought that he had the "potential" to go to the pros if he put on more muscle and improved his ballhandling, defense and outside shooting. I never thought it was a sure thing and in my mind it was foolish to talk of him going out early. Brad tried to use some "tough love" with him but he also gave him great freedom and put the ball in his hands at crunch time. The results were mixed and we lost some key games last year because Tommie turned the ball over at important times late in games.

Now we have a new coach who is old school--my way or the highway. He will be in the hall of fame because he took his kind of players and intensely coached them to be terrors on the court. Toughness was a key element. Intensity was a key element. Clearly this style of coaching is new to Tommie. As with all of us when we had to work for someone new, he needs to adjust and adapt. RM can help him get better but unless he improves his toughness and ballhandling I would doubt that he will give him the freedom that he had with Brad.

As a side note, I have watched about a dozen games this weekend (TIVO and fast forward!) and there are dozens of guards playing right now who are as good or better than Tommie overall. The amazing toughness of some of the guards out there is amazing. Marquette has four iron tough guards-and many teams have at least two who are tough as nails who knock you down and take no prisoners. Even SIU has several of those type of guards. Tommie is a nice rebounder and a finesse player. Look at the NBA and check the rosters for players who are his size and weight--very few--who are not fierce players with intensity and incredible athletic ability. I personally love Tommie and I am delighted that he became a Billiken but as one who is often accused of drinking Billiken kool aid, I can say that Tommie need to improve a lot if he wants to play in the NBA.

[Guest 3pt.daddy]

Check out Bernie's latest Bernie Bits. It is just up on stltoday.com. He writes about postings on this board. You can guess what it is about.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/co...70?OpenDocument

first of all, let's talk about the current billikens and not about TD being in the NBA. Majerus at this juncture has not improved the billikens any more than Soderberg. he is supposed to be a teacher, and playing 6-7 players while not using his bench is not teaching. he plays 3-guards while one is undersized and does not contribute but 2-pts. and 1-rebound for being in the game 25-30 minutes. that ladies and gentleman is poor coaching. closed practices do'nt cut it either. let the world in on what he is trying to accomplish and maybe more people will embrace Majerus and the program. at this early juncture, all i see is the same old same old. Majerus is supposed to be a teacher let's see him work his majic with what he has. Hell anyone can play 6-7 players burn them out just like Soderberg. Heck, how many points could Knollmeyer score and how many rebounds could he get in 25-30 minutes of playing time like Polk. Let's try for 3-games and find out or Let's keep playing Polk and complain about the bench. If anyone understands athletics, You can't even get warmed up in 2-minutes and that's not teaching either

[SLUDrew]

Bernie is a jerk who can't wait to print something contraversial even if it is not verified. No one from a decent journalism school would go with a story based upon an anonymous post on a internet board without some independent verification of the story. He will never change. By the way, he sat right in front of me at a game recently and he looks like he has put on at least 100 more pounds. He is immense, so much so that he makes Majerus look small next to him. That can not be healthy!

With regard to Tommie, I think a lot of people on this board have been star struck with him since he arrived and the hype made him seem like a player to go early to the pros. He clearly is a special talent and I thought that he had the "potential" to go to the pros if he put on more muscle and improved his ballhandling, defense and outside shooting. I never thought it was a sure thing and in my mind it was foolish to talk of him going out early. Brad tried to use some "tough love" with him but he also gave him great freedom and put the ball in his hands at crunch time. The results were mixed and we lost some key games last year because Tommie turned the ball over at important times late in games.

Now we have a new coach who is old school--my way or the highway. He will be in the hall of fame because he took his kind of players and intensely coached them to be terrors on the court. Toughness was a key element. Intensity was a key element. Clearly this style of coaching is new to Tommie. As with all of us when we had to work for someone new, he needs to adjust and adapt. RM can help him get better but unless he improves his toughness and ballhandling I would doubt that he will give him the freedom that he had with Brad.

As a side note, I have watched about a dozen games this weekend (TIVO and fast forward!) and there are dozens of guards playing right now who are as good or better than Tommie overall. The amazing toughness of some of the guards out there is amazing. Marquette has four iron tough guards-and many teams have at least two who are tough as nails who knock you down and take no prisoners. Even SIU has several of those type of guards. Tommie is a nice rebounder and a finesse player. Look at the NBA and check the rosters for players who are his size and weight--very few--who are not fierce players with intensity and incredible athletic ability. I personally love Tommie and I am delighted that he became a Billiken but as one who is often accused of drinking Billiken kool aid, I can say that Tommie need to improve a lot if he wants to play in the NBA.

Great post Billikan.

I think some one this board have such a man-crush on Tommie that they are failing to see the big picture. We have a a hall of fame coach on our hands who has one of the great basketball minds this game has known. Yet, 6 games into his era there are some already doubting his methods??????????????? I find this unbelievable and speaks to just how little some on this board actually know about college basketball.

First off, the team is learning a new system, so while nobody has been blown away with what they are doing on the floor, you have to give it time. Kentucky lost at home to GARDNER WEBB just a few weeks ago while instituting a new system of their own. I wonder if they ar clamorning to bring back Tubby Smith?

We have a recruiting class coming in like we haven't seen at SLU in YEARS, if ever.

By the way, the lst thing we heard that actually came from Tommie and not from someone associated with Tommie, is that he respected that Coach held him accountable for his actions.

I think we may all be going off the deep end with this issue.

Whatever happens with Tommie, no one player is bigger than the team or program.

[SluSignGuy]

Just for reference, here is the thread about this topic on Bernie's board:

http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=503472

[aj_arete]

Bernie is a top-notch reporter and I believe him when he said that he confirmed that the post was actually made by Liddell's father. I know there are many on here who despise Miklasz, but this is no rookie reporter.

[Band Man]

first of all, let's talk about the current billikens and not about TD being in the NBA. Majerus at this juncture has not improved the billikens any more than Soderberg. he is supposed to be a teacher, and playing 6-7 players while not using his bench is not teaching. he plays 3-guards while one is undersized and does not contribute but 2-pts. and 1-rebound for being in the game 25-30 minutes. that ladies and gentleman is poor coaching. closed practices do'nt cut it either. let the world in on what he is trying to accomplish and maybe more people will embrace Majerus and the program. at this early juncture, all i see is the same old same old. Majerus is supposed to be a teacher let's see him work his majic with what he has. Hell anyone can play 6-7 players burn them out just like Soderberg. Heck, how many points could Knollmeyer score and how many rebounds could he get in 25-30 minutes of playing time like Polk. Let's try for 3-games and find out or Let's keep playing Polk and complain about the bench. If anyone understands athletics, You can't even get warmed up in 2-minutes and that's not teaching either

By wasting your first post on this garbage, you are already losing credibilty. "If you understood athletics" you would understand that RM is attempting to make this team better in the long run. He wants to lay a foundation. He's even said, if he wants to win right now, he would do things much differently. "If you understood athletics" maybe you'd recognize that RM isn't utilizing our bench very much because they simply aren't ready. The last few games AK was given an opportunity to show RM he can play...instead he comes in and turns the ball over several times in 3 minutes while looking lost on defense and offense. Also, if you want more than three guards you may get it very soon as DB is back from injury. "If you understood athletics" you'd understand that the closed practice deal is a non-issue...that's just RM's style. He wants no distractions when he's trying to teach his players and make them better. If you've attended a game you can't even begin to argue that RM isn't a teacher. He brings each player over and teaches them during breaks in play and timeouts.

"If you understood athletics" and more praticularly basketball 3pt., you'd understand that SLU is already a better team this year, and once the system starts to cick (whenever that may be..let's hope it happens soon) this team will be vastly improved. They are shooting with greater efficiency than last year. They are holding their opponents (with the exception of MO ST) to a lower field goal percentage than last year. Finally, unlike last year, this team is never out of a game. RM makes adjustments and is able to make games close that shouldn't be (i.e. MO ST). Maybe you should try to "understand athletics" a little more 3 pt. before wasting your breath and posting something.

[3star_recruit]

Question for the board:

Are you comfortable with RM sacrificing short term success for long term success if he only plans to be here for the short term?

Taking a hard line with our star player wouldn't bother me so much if I really felt strongly that The Big Man was going to be here 4 years from now to coach the players he signed. IMO our best chance to win during his tenure is next year. As it stands this year is just a training session for next season and Bernie is doing his best to fan the flames so we're one critical piece short going into next season. I didn't foresee Bernie sticking his head into a family squabble. I'm worried.

[kmbilliken]

I was pretty amazed to see the quote in the Bits this AM. Very amazed actually. It will definitely get the radio talk-show circuit jump-started for the season.

Personally, I loved and miss Brad. Not because I think he's a better coach, of course, but because he was good enough, got done wrong, and we wouldn't have to listen to the constant preaching about the virtuosity of RM, since such a thing simply doesn't exist in college hoops (perhaps with the exception of Bruce Weber).

I don't want to start an argument obviously, because BS is a faded memory by this point, but this probably is being whispered in the Lisch household too, if I had to guess....

I doubt if its being whispered in the Lisch household. What's probably being said there is if you don't like the way you're playing, work harder at changing it.

[Billikan]

Question for the board:

Are you comfortable with RM sacrificing short term success for long term success if he only plans to be here for the short term?

Taking a hard line with our star player wouldn't bother me so much if I really felt strongly that The Big Man was going to be here 4 years from now to coach the players he signed. IMO our best chance to win during his tenure is next year. As it stands this year is just a training session for next season and Bernie is doing his best to fan the flames so we're one critical piece short going into next season. I didn't foresee Bernie sticking his head into a family squabble. I'm worried.

I think it is too early to be worried but I agree that Bernie would take great joy in a transfer from the program by Tommie. Based upon my discussions with the coach I have no doubt that he intends to be here for the next 4 years. I do think that this team is not as good as he thought it might be. I do have hope that we can be at least decent this year because I think the next 3 years will be dynamite.

[slufanskip]

I think it is too early to be worried but I agree that Bernie would take great joy in a transfer from the program by Tommie. Based upon my discussions with the coach I have no doubt that he intends to be here for the next 4 years. I do think that this team is not as good as he thought it might be. I do have hope that we can be at least decent this year because I think the next 3 years will be dynamite.

We already are decent. We are 4-2. We've won the games we were supposed to win and lost one we were supposed to lose. Our 2nd loss was on the road at Mo State .... a place many good teams will lose. We played poorly yet had a chance to win at the end. I can't believe how hard we have to search to gripe. If we lose tonight to Pacific at home ... you will have something to gripe about. We need to give it time, personally, I don't think we are sacrificing short term gain for long term results, teaching players to play the game fundamentally correct and pushing them to become better players isn't sacrificing anything. All but DP, LM, and DB will be back next year. I think RM has a bit of an ego an knocks the team a bit so he won't look as bad if our season isn't as good as he'd like. Also Sodie won 20 (yes 20) and if we only win 18 .... he doesn't want to look bad.

He's trying to teach the players to be fundamentally sound ... that's ok by me