Article re Scrimmage (from Memphis Paper)

[davidnark]

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2007/...ed-in-1st-test/

[davidnark]

Meanwhile, the Tigers were not particularly pleased with their performance in the Saturday morning session against a Saint Louis team playing with just eight healthy bodies.

Will someone please clarify who is injured right now. I thought we had 13 guys on the roster (see list below). I am only aware of two injured players (i.e., Husak and Brown). Who are the other three injured players?

2007-2008 Roster

Dwayne Polk

Anthony Mitchell

Dustin Maguire

Barry Eberhardt

Kevin Lisch

Marcus Relphorde

Tommie Liddell

Luke Meyer

Adam Knollmeyer

Bryce Husak (Still injured?)

Danny Brown (Injured)

Paul Eckerle

Mike Jones

[Basketbill]

"They outplayed us this morning," Calipari said. "They beat us to loose balls. We didn't offensive rebound. We turned it over way more than they did. They took better shots. They were grinding it out."

Sounds like RM has them hungry. I love the fact that Memphis did not get offensive rebounds!! IF that is a trend this ought to be a fun season!!

[kshoe]

Will someone please clarify who is injured right now. I thought we had 13 guys on the roster (see list below). I am only aware of two injured players (i.e., Husak and Brown). Who are the other three injured players?

2007-2008 Roster

Dwayne Polk

Anthony Mitchell

Dustin Maguire

Barry Eberhardt

Kevin Lisch

Marcus Relphorde

Tommie Liddell

Luke Meyer

Adam Knollmeyer

Bryce Husak (Still injured?)

Danny Brown (Injured)

Paul Eckerle

Mike Jones

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[brianstl]

Saw this in the Memphis Edge from Don Wolken in response from a question from thicks:

thicks, because of the injury situation(s) with Memphis, I didn’t get a chance to go over to the SLU side and get their take. But it sounded like your team played hard, executed well and really pushed Memphis. Coach Cal mentioned that this should be a big confidence boost for Saint Louis heading into the season.

http://www.thememphisedge.com/2007/10/27/s...rt/#comment-690

[Guest BillikenReport]

There's also been another addition to the roster.

One of the former walk-ons is back with the team again. I want to say it is Peyton Jacks, though it might be Wendell Bennett.

Sorry, but I can't find the note I left about this on my computer.

- Nate

[Cowboy]

never like to see players get injured but I like the claim that Dorsey got hurt bumping (or more) into one of our guys

I am not taking the fluke Scott Rolen type of shoulder injury, but more Dorsey ran into a brick shithouse!!!!

good work guys!!!

there is much more info on the scrimmage than I expected to hear

did not like the line about when Memphis played halfcourt D we could not handle, sounds familiar (I know it is early)

[JaleJarr]

Although I haven't had the opportunity to speak with Tommie on his play against Memphis I did find

out that Tommie did not start. I believe this to be a good thing. The beginning of Majerus' making of Liddell if you will.

When Tommie was in high school people alway commented about Tommie's passive play. They often

wondered how do you correct this. I've always believed that you had to take away what was most

important to Tommie, playing time. If I were his coach I would've sat him down next to me during his passive play. I would have told him if you only want to watch the game as opposed to competing take one of the best seats in the house. This never happened during Tommie's high school career. It never happened during Tommie's first 2 years at SLU. The George Washington game during Tommie's freshmen season was Tommie's career in a microcosm. He had an opportunity to win the game with a hard earn layup or free throw. Instead he passed the ball to Danny Brown for a long range jumper. Danny lost the handle, the game was forced into OT and GW came away with a win. At the time I said if I were Soderberg, Tommie would have sat out the OT. People said I was too hard in my thinking, now Coach Majerus will have to spend time and energy corrected something that should have been done at the very least during Tommie's freshmen season.

This is not a slam on Soderberg as I respected his abilities as a coach. He had flaws as a coach as all coaches do, however I really respected his ability to coach defense. I thought he was a hard nose coach who would hold Tommie accountable from day one. Which is the reason I was really supportive of Tommie's decision to attend SLU. Again don't take this post as a slam against Coach Soderberg.

[slu72]

Although I haven't had the opportunity to speak with Tommie on his play against Memphis I did find

out that Tommie did not start. I believe this to be a good thing. The beginning of Majerus' making of Liddell if you will.

When Tommie was in high school people alway commented about Tommie's passive play. They often

wondered how do you correct this. I've always believed that you had to take away what was most

important to Tommie, playing time. If I were his coach I would've sat him down next to me during his passive play. I would have told him if you only want to watch the game as opposed to competing take one of the best seats in the house. This never happened during Tommie's high school career. It never happened during Tommie's first 2 years at SLU. The George Washington game during Tommie's freshmen season was Tommie's career in a microcosm. He had an opportunity to win the game with a hard earn layup or free throw. Instead he passed the ball to Danny Brown for a long range jumper. Danny lost the handle, the game was forced into OT and GW came away with a win. At the time I said if I were Soderberg, Tommie would have sat out the OT. People said I was too hard in my thinking, now Coach Majerus will have to spend time and energy corrected something that should have been done at the very least during Tommie's freshmen season.

This is not a slam on Soderberg as I respected his abilities as a coach. He had flaws as a coach as all coaches do, however I really respected his ability to coach defense. I thought he was a hard nose coach who would hold Tommie accountable from day one. Which is the reason I was really supportive of Tommie's decision to attend SLU. Again don't take this post as a slam against Coach Soderberg.

Wow, he sat TL? Hopefully, you're right, JaleJar, that he did it for motivational purposes and not because of TL's ankle or someother injury. The point about 4 of our guys not playing due to injuries has us stumped. We knew about BH and DB, who are the two mystery did not plays?

[NashvilleBilliken]

I'm not sure if I should be excited or tempered from this report. At first glance, I'm pumped that we came out and won the first session. On the other hand, it seems like the same ole story. We come out pumped up and play real hard. We even lead the game for the most part. Then we eventually get worn out and it's almost impossible to keep up with the talent level of the other team. Sounds like UNC all over again.

Either way, it is definitely encouraging that we were able to hold our own with the most athletic team in the country. With a healthy team, maybe we could have held out through the later sessions. I wish we could get some details on induvidual players. Not statistics per se, but how they played. I.e How did Marcus look? Is he going to contribute? Things like that. Timmerman...got any inside sources?

[jjray]

Although I haven't had the opportunity to speak with Tommie on his play against Memphis I did find

out that Tommie did not start. I believe this to be a good thing. The beginning of Majerus' making of Liddell if you will.

When Tommie was in high school people alway commented about Tommie's passive play. They often

wondered how do you correct this. I've always believed that you had to take away what was most

important to Tommie, playing time. If I were his coach I would've sat him down next to me during his passive play. I would have told him if you only want to watch the game as opposed to competing take one of the best seats in the house. This never happened during Tommie's high school career. It never happened during Tommie's first 2 years at SLU. The George Washington game during Tommie's freshmen season was Tommie's career in a microcosm. He had an opportunity to win the game with a hard earn layup or free throw. Instead he passed the ball to Danny Brown for a long range jumper. Danny lost the handle, the game was forced into OT and GW came away with a win. At the time I said if I were Soderberg, Tommie would have sat out the OT. People said I was too hard in my thinking, now Coach Majerus will have to spend time and energy corrected something that should have been done at the very least during Tommie's freshmen season.

This is not a slam on Soderberg as I respected his abilities as a coach. He had flaws as a coach as all coaches do, however I really respected his ability to coach defense. I thought he was a hard nose coach who would hold Tommie accountable from day one. Which is the reason I was really supportive of Tommie's decision to attend SLU. Again don't take this post as a slam against Coach Soderberg.

Great post! Danny Brown had the game of his life against GW that year but I know I winced when Tommie passed up the shot at the buzzer in regulation. If Majerus is prodding Tommie to attack the basket on offense, then I say hurrah. But I'd really like to know who coach went with as the starting 5 if he sat Tommie: Kevin, Dwayne, Luke, Barry & who? Apparently these five took it to Memphis right off the jump. I would think it was Knollmeyer or Relphorde to get some size on the floor or we went insanely small with Mitchell as the 5th.

[Clock_Tower]

Great post! Danny Brown had the game of his life against GW that year but I know I winced when Tommie passed up the shot at the buzzer in regulation. If Majerus is prodding Tommie to attack the basket on offense, then I say hurrah. But I'd really like to know who coach went with as the starting 5 if he sat Tommie: Kevin, Dwayne, Luke, Barry & who? Apparently these five took it to Memphis right off the jump. I would think it was Knollmeyer or Relphorde to get some size on the floor or we went insanely small with Mitchell as the 5th.

Who really thinks we stack up well with Memphis on the inside? Why is this a suprise? No good if you wear down and lose by single digits to a loaded UNC team? Please, set the kool-aide down and take a break.

If our team plays as well as they did against UNC, and apparently as they may have done the first session against Memphis, this will be a decent year. Decent year equals 18 wins. You just don't win 23 or more games with BH, LM and company inside.

[Band Man]

Who really thinks we stack up well with Memphis on the inside? Why is this a suprise? No good if you wear down and lose by single digits to a loaded UNC team? Please, set the kool-aide down and take a break.

If our team plays as well as they did against UNC, and apparently as they may have done the first session against Memphis, this will be a decent year. Decent year equals 18 wins. You just don't win 23 or more games with BH, LM and company inside.

I have several comments in reply to Clock_Tower's last comment. First, I think you are being a little too generous to Memphis regarding their inside presence. Memphis has 5 forwards on their roster, none of who averaged anything close to double figure scoring last year. There are several successful college programs who are built around their guards (e.g. kansas and memphis). In the tournament last year, Xavier almost knocked off Ohio State (probably should have won if not for some questionable calls)...do you think that anybody felt they "matched up" with Greg Oden and Ohio State down low.

Also, you comment that you don't win 23 games with what we have inside. Xavier is picked to finish top in the A-10...they're tallest player is 6-9. They have no big men returning that were significant contributors last year. In college basketball, guard play can dominate most games. With a good coach and an effective system, there is no reason why a team without highly touted big men can be a successful team...you can't argue with history. In the A-10 with our backcourt we should be highly competitive. Throw in the X Factor of Majerus (not to mention the fact that we may get some pleasant surprises from a guy like BH or BE) and its very possible that this team will win 20-23 games. We return 4 starters, and lets keep in mind that IV didn't exactly carry this team last year. If our big men can be serviceable, we will exceed expectations greatly IMO.

[jjray]

Who really thinks we stack up well with Memphis on the inside? Why is this a suprise? No good if you wear down and lose by single digits to a loaded UNC team? Please, set the kool-aide down and take a break.

If our team plays as well as they did against UNC, and apparently as they may have done the first session against Memphis, this will be a decent year. Decent year equals 18 wins. You just don't win 23 or more games with BH, LM and company inside.

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension ... or is it just the english language? Nowhere did I say "we stack up well with Memphis on the inside?" Nowhere, nada, zippo. Then comes this "put the kool-aide" down garbage. What a clown.

[Clock_Tower]

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension ... or is it just the english language? Nowhere did I say "we stack up well with Memphis on the inside?" Nowhere, nada, zippo. Then comes this "put the kool-aide" down garbage. What a clown.

Calm down JJ. My post was not directed your way but instead further up in the thread.

On a related matter, I generally do like the new format but I do miss the old thread format and its ability to respond more directly to each comment. For the most, as here, I simply responded to the last post which happened to be yours.

Let me be more clear. BTW, JJ, this also is not directed your way. Even with IV (who coasted for part of the year and regressed from his Junior season) who was our only real threat inside and who kept the defenses off TL and KL, the Billikens were extremely weak on the inside. This year, many on this Board think that we can replace IV relatively easily. Not so sure, since I haven't seen BE and MR, but even if IV can be replaced with nothing more, we will still be weak inside. Can we win 23 games with a short line-up? Absolutely. Look at my prior posts comparing this team to that of Spoon's with David Robinson and Donnie Campbell on the inside. As far as winning with guards, sure, I'd rather have guards than forwards in college and the A -10 in general. At the same time, we were blown right off the court at times - Texas A & M - was horrible.

As for the inside guys of Memphis and X, I really haven't taken the time to review their rosters this year. Nonetheless, I would blindly trade our interior guys (BH, AK and LM) with theirs. If RM can get enough production at the 4 and 5 to free up LM at the 3 (which Brad wanted to do but was not able to do), then we might have a good year. As per my post, am frustrated that we haven't been able to get a glimpse of BE and MR. Next year is another story in that our interior guys appear to be good albeit young and inexperienced.

Last year we won 19 games (not 20). With a better A 10 and weaker OOC schedule, I would expect 20 wins. 18 if things don't go quite as well and 23 if things all go our way. We'll see soon enough.

[Billikan]

If you compare our "bigs" other than Ian this team has far more potential than last year with the addition of MR and BE. If AK is improved and if Bryce can play some effective minutes then the coach will have more options in terms of numbers of players who can defend and rebound with a stronger senior in Luke and a rebounding and defensive player in Mitchell. However, I can see why RM is taking the conservative route in his predictions. We have a lot of questions to answer with only three players who you could say will be high level performers from day 1. Kevin, Tommie and Luke will be the base upon which this team is built. Beyond that, none of us can predict with certainty what will happen. If we play well I doubt we will win more than 20 games because the conference is much better and we are playing some good teams on the road. It will be very interesting to see how teams will defend us without Ian because even when he was not playing well he was double and triple teamed. I think before the season is over we will look a lot like Golden State in the playoffs last year with 3 or 4 guys in the lineup who can shoot the 3 ball and a hustling defense. If the team could get an upset early and a few good wins in the conference within the first month of conference play then I could see us playing with more confidence. It will be fun to watch!

[moytoy12]

If you compare our "bigs" other than Ian this team has far more potential than last year with the addition of MR and BE. within the first month of conference play then I could see us playing with more confidence. It will be fun to watch!

How can you have a comparison worth anything without IV?

Bigs last year: IV, BH, AK

Bigs this year: BH, AK, BE

LM is not a big and from all accounts M. Relphorde isn't either therefore i left each of them off. In terms of inside play only for this year, i believe the loss of IV will have a greater impact on the team than whatever we gain from BE (on the inside). That doesn't mean that our team isn't better, but from a pure post play perspective that is my opinion. Obviously, i don't have a lot of evidence to support my hypothesis re: BE's post play.

[Billikan]

I guess I was really focusing on rebounding and defense. It seems to me that we have a lot more options this year. Neither BH nor AK was any kind of an option last year so if they play at all better then they may be an additional option. The additions of BE and MR--who people say can defend "bigs" but he is not yet and as agressive a rebounder as we would want--add a lot compared to JJ or the lost twins. I have only seen Mitchell play in person once but I think he could be a big help on the boards off the bench. Luke may not be a big in the true sense but he can defend inside players and he is a tough rebounder. The offense this year will have to come much more from outside and from penetration rather than a low post game like with Ian. In one sense that could be considered bad but it may not be if we can open up the floor and hit some shots. In some of the conference games against some of the big athletic front lines I think we might struggle on defense unless BH really gets in shape and can clog the middle like he did late last year. You can bet that RM will not play anyone who does not bust his butt on every possesion. The fun begins on Friday!

[Quality Is Job 1]

On a related matter, I generally do like the new format but I do miss the old thread format and its ability to respond more directly to each comment. For the most, as here, I simply responded to the last post which happened to be yours.

Clock Tower, each post has its own "reply" button beneath it. In addition, at the bottom of all of the threads is an "add reply" button. If you click a "reply" button, the resulting page will have the post quoted in the form box. If you're not responding to the last post, you shouldn't click "reply" under that post. You could click "add reply" at the very bottom or click "reply" higher up, directly beneath the post you want to respond to.

[TDELL]

Wow, he sat TL? Hopefully, you're right, JaleJar, that he did it for motivational purposes and not because of TL's ankle or someother injury. The point about 4 of our guys not playing due to injuries has us stumped. We knew about BH and DB, who are the two mystery did not plays?

Dont be surprised if Tommie doesnt start Friday, coach doesnt think Tommie is working hard enough in practice. They did have a meeting with Tommie...

[Quality Is Job 1]

Dont be surprised if Tommie doesnt start Friday, coach doesnt think Tommie is working hard enough in practice. They did have a meeting with Tommie...

I don't like what I've been reading. However, hopefully in five or six years when Tommie is going through his first real contract negotiations with an NBA team, he'll think back on October and November 2007 and be thankful that his new coach lit a fire under him.

[Westy03]

Tdell,

Is Tommie bummed out about it or is taking it as contructive criticism? We need him badly this year and I feel that he will respond with flying colors.

[jimbofive]

Dont be surprised if Tommie doesnt start Friday, coach doesnt think Tommie is working hard enough in practice. They did have a meeting with Tommie...

Tommie will show him. I have no doubt Majerus wants to eat crow on this one. He hasn't said that Tommie can't step it up, or that he won't, just that he currently isn't, though he said he's getting better. All it will take is one game of not hearing his name called, even if it's just an exhibition game, and Tommie will be hungry. Maybe he'll win that spot back by Friday, anyways, still got 3 practices left this week.

[brianstl]

Tommie will show him. I have no doubt Majerus wants to eat crow on this one. He hasn't said that Tommie can't step it up, or that he won't, just that he currently isn't, though he said he's getting better. All it will take is one game of not hearing his name called, even if it's just an exhibition game, and Tommie will be hungry. Maybe he'll win that spot back by Friday, anyways, still got 3 practices left this week.

Seriously, why the hell is anyone worried about this?

Tommie will end up giving Majerus the effort he is looking for and then will be back in the starting line-up. Big deal if he is sitting on the bench for the start of an exhibition game.

You are all falling for every bit of coach speak coming out of Rick's mouth. From many people on here buying that BE would not only be the starting 5, but get the majority of the minutes, right to this non-story about TL.

[Westy03]

Brian im not worried that Tommie wont start im just a little worried that Tommie wasnt putting forth the effort to be better. Everyone knows Tommie is the key to the season. To say its a non story is a bit much. The coach isnt happy with the effort from the our best player, seems legit to me. Its all about motivating. Majerus didnt have .75 winning percentage by sitting his best player.