Bay Area Billiken Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 I watched part of the first half of SIU v. Bradley and frankly could take no more of it. It looked like this pressure "defense" of SIU could have resulted in fouls called on SIU on almost every Bradley possession. It really showed the difference in the way the game is called in different regions of the country. Had that game been played with West Coast refs, SIU may well have had players fouling out in the first half. There were uncalled muggings under the basket both ways. Shooting? Positively awful. Bricks are us, especially for SIU. And I see SIU somehow won 53-51. Bradley blew an 8 point second half lead. Both teams shot in the 30% range. And these are supposed to be NCAA teams? I'm sure we will get more glowing reports from the MVC media apologists. Bottom line: that was ugly basketball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Referees tend to let the calls go to the aggressors. I dont have a problem with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 and a very exciting finish. I know some feel that I'm an MVC apologist so this won't shock anyone when I say this, but who cares. The Big 10 has for a long time played the exact same style of basketball and it culminated when Wisconsin and Michigan St. met in a final 4 game where both scored in the 40s. While this may have upset Billy Packer it was only two years later that SLU hired the lead assistant from the Wisconsin team and installed his system. In yet another sign of the times, I saw the Scottrade folks found a few new seats and the games today are now officially the highest attended games at the Kiel/Savvis/Scottrade. SLU was always given that honor in the past with the KU game and more recently UNC even though we all know MU-Illinois could have drawn just as many. I guess now the Scottrade folk would just as soon give the "honor" to the MVC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted March 4, 2007 Author Share Posted March 4, 2007 When Spoon's Claggett/Highmark team made the NCAA in Baltimore, the difference in the way the 2 games were called was stark. In SLU's first round game against Minnesota, it appeared that the Big Ten everything goes, football rulebook was used. Only the drawing of blood was a foul. Then 2 days later, in Round 2 against Wake Forest, the ACC touch foul rulebook was used. In today's game, and it is just my opinion, I thought I saw a lot of uncalled fouls in that first half. We will see if SIU gets away with that stuff in the NCAA Tournament. It probably will depend upon the region from where the refs hail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 I'm drawing from memory here and there is no way I could find the link to this but I'm pretty sure at one point I read an article where a math guy analyized conference success in the NCAA for the past 10-15 years vs. the relative seeding of the conferences. Of all the BCS conferences the one that significantly underperformed was the Pac-10. I mention this because you are a "Bay Area" guy and likely follow the Pac-10 and maybe even enjoy it. In my opinion, the Pac-10 has always had the "softest" style of play while the Big 10, Big 12 and maybe even ACC are much more physical leagues. To me this would argue that in the NCAA tourney the games are more physical, not less, than the regular season and teams that can handle that style of play will more often then not, over a long enough time period, have more success. I'm sure there are plenty of "one-off arguments" that can refute any of what I said but over the average I just don't believe that physical teams have it harder in teh NCAAs, rather I believe its the softer teams that have a tough go of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted March 4, 2007 Author Share Posted March 4, 2007 You may well be right. These study results surely came after the UCLA dynasty days under John Wooden, however. I only tacitly follow the Pac-10. I actually follow the WCC closer than the Pac-10. But there is no question that the Pac-10 is a finesse, touch foul league. Both leagues use some of the same refs. That stuff SIU was doing today would have been called fouls out here. I'm quite sure of that. Also, some West Coast teams, Cal in particular, have traditionally had problems when they play outside the Pacific Time Zone. Cal is notorious for loading up its non-conference schedule with assorted cupcakes, invariably in Berkeley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfunk Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Yeah, like Slu basketball is beautiful all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgiephan Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 SIU > SLU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 >I'm drawing from memory here and there is no way I could >find the link to this but I'm pretty sure at one point I >read an article where a math guy analyized conference >success in the NCAA for the past 10-15 years vs. the >relative seeding of the conferences. Of all the BCS >conferences the one that significantly underperformed was >the Pac-10. I mention this because you are a "Bay Area" guy >and likely follow the Pac-10 and maybe even enjoy it. In my >opinion, the Pac-10 has always had the "softest" style of >play while the Big 10, Big 12 and maybe even ACC are much >more physical leagues. > >To me this would argue that in the NCAA tourney the games >are more physical, not less, than the regular season and >teams that can handle that style of play will more often >then not, over a long enough time period, have more success. > >I'm sure there are plenty of "one-off arguments" that can >refute any of what I said but over the average I just don't >believe that physical teams have it harder in the NCAAs, >rather I believe its the softer teams that have a tough go >of it. I would have to see the info. I don't hold a lot to that. 3 different Pac 10 schools have been to Final Fours in that time, two winning National Titles. And now with Oregon and Washington building programs. Oregon was a disaster before Ernie Kent went there 10 years ago, they still have highly outdated facilities etc...and Romar is building Washington. USC again, poor facilities, now they have made a commitment with facilities and bucking up for Tim Floyd. Those are 3 teams that only concerned themselves with football previously. Stanford has been successful for a long time with less athletic players under Montgomery. They had a few years of not performing up to their seed, mostly due to lack of athleticism. And Arizona despite their national title, and final fours etc...have had other years when they have been upset because they seemingly are always a high seed. Ben Howland has very physical teams at UCLA. Other schools are less physical and win too. The ACC isn't "known" for being super physical but has had at least two sweet 16 teams for 27 straight years. It is more about the program's commitment to winning, and getting a good coach who can coach and recruit as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted March 4, 2007 Author Share Posted March 4, 2007 In what? Are you aware of the all-time series record in basketball? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted March 4, 2007 Author Share Posted March 4, 2007 SLU leads the all-time series 24-23. This series has largely been a function of the venue. We'll see you next year at Scottrade Center after Tatum's eligibility ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 The valley teams all play this style. Brutally physical and rarely scoring in the 60s. Of course when SLU played this way we were heavily criticized for it. But when it comes to the valley it is great basketball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 They take that style to the tournament. If SLU were winning, no one would criticize it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 >They take that style to the tournament. If SLU were winning, >no one would criticize it. The hell they didn't. Romar and Spoon both played that way and both were criticized for their boring style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rchif0 Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 >The valley teams all play this style. Brutally physical and >rarely scoring in the 60s. > >Of course when SLU played this way we were heavily >criticized for it. But when it comes to the valley it is >great basketball. The average points scored by every single MVC team is above 60, the lowest being 61.5 by Indiana State, and the highest being 74.9 by Drake (followed by 74.4 by Bradley and 74 by Missouri State). Somehow you guys are confusing SIU's style of play with the MVC's. Yes, the MVC plays physical basketball, but SIU is the only one with such a hard-to-watch style (Except for SIU fans, who love it). MVC fans hate watching SIU play as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 >The average points scored by every single MVC team is above >60, the lowest being 61.5 by Indiana State, and the highest >being 74.9 by Drake (followed by 74.4 by Bradley and 74 by >Missouri State). Somehow you guys are confusing SIU's style >of play with the MVC's. Yes, the MVC plays physical >basketball, but SIU is the only one with such a >hard-to-watch style (Except for SIU fans, who love it). MVC >fans hate watching SIU play as well. Today's games SIU 53 Bradley 51 Creighton 75 MSU 58 Yesterday's SIU 71 Drake 59 Creighton 59 Indiana St 38 Missouri St 67 Wich St 64 Bradley 51 NIU 48 Thurs Indiana St 68 Illinois St 65 Drake 101 Evansville 96 OT Teams are scoring an average of 64 points in the tourney. Take out the cellar dweller first round game between and Drakw and evansville that went into OT and MVC teams are averaging 59 points a game. This is great basketball?????????????????????? As a SLU fan I was always told it was horrible to play that style. How times do change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rchif0 Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 > >>The average points scored by every single MVC team is above >>60, the lowest being 61.5 by Indiana State, and the highest >>being 74.9 by Drake (followed by 74.4 by Bradley and 74 by >>Missouri State). Somehow you guys are confusing SIU's style >>of play with the MVC's. Yes, the MVC plays physical >>basketball, but SIU is the only one with such a >>hard-to-watch style (Except for SIU fans, who love it). MVC >>fans hate watching SIU play as well. > >Today's games >SIU 53 >Bradley 51 > >Creighton 75 >MSU 58 > >Yesterday's >SIU 71 >Drake 59 > >Creighton 59 >Indiana St 38 > >Missouri St 67 >Wich St 64 > >Bradley 51 >NIU 48 > >Thurs > >Indiana St 68 >Illinois St 65 > >Drake 101 >Evansville 96 OT > >Teams are scoring an average of 64 points in the tourney. >Take out the cellar dweller first round game between and >Drakw and evansville that went into OT and MVC teams are >averaging 59 points a game. > >This is great basketball?????????????????????? > >As a SLU fan I was always told it was horrible to play that >style. How times do change. The "great basketball" part comes where 5/8 of those games came down to the wire. And as I said, during the season, people didn't have a problem scoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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