Would a new president help the athletic department?

[Clock_Tower]

Apreciate your comments but I stand by my statement "reduced size and quality of the arena."

As to the size, the new arena will be a 1 level/bowl instead of 2 with several thousand fewer seats. How am I inaccurate.

As to quality, my brother is one of the accountants for the contractor and I understand that many "extras" have been eliminated to reduce the cost. This should not be surprising since CL and others did everything they could to add back in the coaching offices, etc. which won out in favor of size. Again, how am I inaccurate.

As to donations, SLU has had many campaigns going on at the same time. Granted, some donors would only give the medical building and never to a basketball arena, and vise versa, but I have to believe that many donors who would normally contribute were already tapped out for the other projects. If anything, I question more the timing of the arena project than donor committment. Further, placing an incompetent AD, Woolard, in charge made things even worse.

Just my opinion and could be completely off base, but I really don't believe Fr. Biondi is really out there twisting arms and calling in all his favors on the arena project.

BTW, where is civic progress? Was there not an agreement in the 90's for SLU not to build its arena and compete with then Kiel which was owned by civic progress and which appreciated and profited from the rent paid by SLU?

[cheeseman]

Once Civic Progress sold the Blues and the arena we were off the hook. Civic Progress has no interest in the SLU Arena. The way CL has explained it is this: 1. 15K arena was still going to be too small to host NCAA first round games even though the written NCAA guidelines say that it is OK the truth is that no stadium under 18-20K will ever seriously be considered. Therefore, it made no sense to build 15K when you did not get any other benefit from it other than tix sales. 2. The addition of the practice courts and athletic offices were in CL's estimation well worth the loss of 4500 seats. 3. She wants the building sold out not having 5K empty seats - much better atmosphere. 4. A single tiered stadium is much better for viewing then a 2 tiered one. All you have to do is go view a bb game in both kinds and you will very easily see that a single tier has much better viewing/site lines - much closer to the court. 5. Not sure what ammenities have been dropped - would like to see a list for comparison.

[AlumniFan]

I guess there are a couple of things. One, the seating capacity has been reduced, but the size of the overall facility has not changed materially - the composition of the space has changed, in my opinion, for the better. We need quality over quantity for recruiting purposes. We attract, on average, 7 to 8 thousand fans. A 13,000 seat arena, in my opinion, was too big.

Two, the changes in the arena and the decisions regarding it go beyond just Father Biondi. Granted, he is the top dog, but there is a Board of Trustees to deal with and many other constituents. It is not an easy job.

As to "extras" being eliminated, I have not heard anything about that from anyone. I would like to hear details if you have them.

"A strong man stands up for himself; a stronger man stands up for others." - Ben

[Box and Won]

First of all, I am a huge supporter of Fr. Biondi. While I might not agree with all of the decisions he's made over the years, he's done so much to improve the status of the univeristy.

That said, when it comes to athletics I think he dropped the ball in the mid-90's. After Grawer rebuilt the program and Spoon took us to the next level, we were poised to go "big time" but never did. Once Spoon proved that yes, Saint Louis University could actually make it to the NCAA Tournament, that's when more resources should have been dedicated towards athletics, and that's when ground should have been broken for the new arena. Fundraising would have been significantly easier, recruiting efforts would have been positively impacted, and who knows where we'd be now.

[Box and Won]

I love the fact that the size of the arena was reduced. I think that once we start playing there, we'll find that it's the perfect fit for us. The single deck configuration and reduced number of seats will really improve the atmosphere.

[kevinfootes]

To make a long story short, when the Bills moved into the Arena season ticket holders were placed into priority groups for seat selection. When the first group arrived, 1000 of the best seats were already gone. Yow denied anyone had been let in early. Later, after several people admitted they had been let in early, Yow changed her story. I know some people who went from the 3rd row behind the bench to the 15th row. The SLU athletic department screwed over many loyal fans who had stayed with the team through some very lean years.

[Billikan]

I have been very involved from the beginning and I know that the arena project would never have happened if it were not for Father Biondi. He had a wide variety of people who were questioning the project from members of the Board of Trustees to many faculty members. He had made commitments to a number of the schools and the research facility always had priority. Yet with all of those challenges and the fact that unlike MU which I, as a SLU fan, had to pay through the nose to build, SLU has to go it alone with only its fans and benefactors to pay the way.

Every project that is ever built has applied a concept called "value engineering" and your brother is an idiot if he does not know that. I assume he works for Clayco and I have worked with them on a number of projects. With regard to the arena, the original design did not allow for the coaches offices, the practice courts or a lot of other things. Cheryl, working with Bob Clark of Clayco, and a number of others pushed hard for the other amenities and it was discovered that a single concourse facility would be more efficient and the AD got all of the bells and whistles that she wanted for the coaches and the teams. Of course, there will always be issues with working within the budget and we may have to compromise and not have the very best, most expensive furniture and fixtures but this arena will be first rate. The size of the arena was decided after a lot of discussion with the coaching staffs and outside consultants. The final product will be one of the nicer facilities for any private school in the country.

I actually know a lot more about this situation but at some point it important to keep confidential what goes on behind closed doors. Suffice it to say you know very little about what has happened but you talk like you know everything.

[Clock_Tower]

The last few years average attendance has been closer to your 7,000 to 8,000 figure. Do you forget ten years ago when 10,600 would be a poor crowd. Not every game, of course, was 17,000 or more but believe 12,000 was more the average. Personally, I think 15,000 would have been too large as well but do question the 10,600. Believe 12,000 to 13,000 is what SLU needs and deserves.

As far as the "extras", I don't have a list or a copy of the blue prints and instead am going on memory from my brother (SLU grad but not an avid basketball fan) who reviewed some of the original bid work v. the revised bid work on more of curious level and general discussion (his job was not architect, etc) but recall that the cutbacks were not obvious or big ticket items but instead were numerous small items along the lines of what would normally be done to bring a commerical building or even a house in under a reduced budget. Obviously, the single tier/bowl and roof construction reduced the price but also everything from the outside fascade/elevation/number of "towers" to number of electrical outlets and windows down to the building materials used.

In fairness, many original bids probably start off many items or "extras" which would be cut regardless of the financial situation. At the same, I did hear that SLU told the builder to review each aspect/trade to find cost savings to bring the project into budget compliance with the funding reality. At this same time, recall the various plans and rumors swirling regarding the possible elimination of practice facilities, coaches offices, etc. As a result, I did not and do not find it hard to believe that a few "extras" were eliminated. Also, in fairness, I have no knowledge of what Fr. Biondi and the Trustees added back.

In any event, I do not intend these posts to indicate that Fr. Biondi is building a facility that we should not be proud of or that I prefer a 2 tier arena over a 1 tier arena. Frankly, I will have good seats no matter what. Instead, the original post indicated that Fr. Biondi "went out on a limb...", is taking risk for basketball by building without the funding and is doing something unusual for a private school. Hogwash.

[Clock_Tower]

Reread the posts idiot.

[Clock_Tower]

Cheese. Agreed that Civic Progress as a group would not do anything and that there is/was no legal agreement. Instead, I had always presumed that that many consisting of Civic Progress were either alumni and/or probable donors who could and would step forward, individually, if SLU kept renting in the 90's and did not rock the boat when SLU eventually decided to build - now.

[AlumniFan]

Not to be a smartass, but unless the 1,000 seats to which you refer were given to SIU-C or MU or Illinois fans, I assume they went to SLU fans. I don't get it. I vaguely remember this, but never saw how it impacted my tickets and so never really paid any attention to it.

"A strong man stands up for himself; a stronger man stands up for others." - Ben

[kevinfootes]

The seats went to people who weren't season ticket holders. If you had been a season ticket hold for several years would you have been happy about getting bounced out of your seats, SLU fans or not?

[kevinfootes]

Were you expecting SLU to get state money to build this arena? It would be very difficult to get state funding to help a private university build and arena that is about 3 miles away from another arena that isn't even 15 years old. I don't see politicians going to bat for something like that.

[kevinfootes]

How can he not have responsibility if he hires the people running the show and controls their funding? I think that's a ridiculous position.

I never said the university wasn't better of for having Biondi. My question was whether or not the program could be more succesful with someone else in his position. Strictly athletics.

[kevinfootes]

"He may even, at times, be a jerk. But "ruthless" belies a true understanding of Father Biondi as a person especially in light of his accomplishments, which, by the way, are 100% altruistic in the common societal and cultural sense of the word"

Do you really think getting in bed with politicians to sieze property is 100% altruistic? I'm not sure where such behavior is common. There is a difference between manipulating the legal process and behaving in a manner that reflects the ethics taught as part of the university's mission. Please show me where Ignatius describes this vision of the Society?