Jalensdad2002

What makes you think Polk's only options are to penetrate and kick out or a one handed running jumper or whatever you called it. Because he did just that this past year. I don't expect that to change much this season. It's not like he is going to be elevating over most defender once he penetrates in the half court. Believe what you want, but I don't believe Soderberg is going Loyola Marymount, especially when he is qouted as saying the team is going to heavily reliant upon the play of Vouyukas. You weren't that convincing ... I'm still confused how anyone would rather have TL distributing and DP filling the lane rather than DP distributing and TL filling the lane. You read something that I didn't write. I never said I wanted Polk filling the lane. I said bring him off the bench as a change of pace.

>Lisch was a top 100 player on some lists, wasn't he? I have seen Lisch rated as high as #80 in the Scout.com Student Sports Magazine. Tommie has been rated #28 by the relatively new Breakdown Magazine and #66 by Eric Bossi, a scout.com contributor. The writers that have seen Lisch and Liddell generally rate them Top 100.

>actually because kevin's basketball iq (not the right word, >but i dont know what else to call it. i am trying to say >plays bradball now) is higher than tommie's, i actually >think that kevin might make the quicker impact. but as much >as i love kevin lisch, in the end, if tommie puts in the >time and effort to learn to play bradball as well, i dont >think there is a doubt that liddell will be the bigger >impact player. There seems to be this perception that Liddell is a poor to adequate defender. Nothing could be further from the truth. Granted Liddell didn't really get to show his skills playing at East Side due to Coach Brooks decision to play exclusively zone defense, but Tommie made an impact. He was excellent shot blocker as a junior averaging over 2bpg. He was so intimidating that by his senior year he shot blocking fell to just over 1bpg. Guys were passing up open shot for fear of having their shots rejected. He played the passing lanes often turning half-court steals into monster dunks. As I often say no one was better than Tommie from going to defense to offense. In addition his year at Hargrave really improved his defense as Hargrave played man-man. Tommie was often tasked with chasing smaller point guards around in practice as well as game situations. As far as who is going to have the greater impact I would think Tommie due to his highly developed playmaking skills. Tommie standing over 6'6 inches will affect that stat sheet in many different categories. He will help on the boards, on the full court press at the point of attack, and as a help defender. I think a lot of people are expecting the high school Liddell, I'm of the opinion that Tommie will surprise a lot of people with his aggressive play from day 1.

the city of e st louis is a political nightmare. what befuddles me is the way the citizens continue to allow themselves to be held back for a few bucks. be it 7 dollars for their vote or a friendly politician turning a few favors to get additional aid, or allowing teachers that wont teach to continue to be employed, the citizens continue to sell their souls. it is a mess that frankly cant be fixed from the outside imo. the citizens gotta demand change internally first. If you think these things only happen in East St Louis, you missed a very good program on PBS about the 2002 Mayoral election in Newark, NJ. tonight. People tend to side with political figures that most resemble their backgrounds, therefore if you have some elected official who may be corrupt, but also hands out turkeys during the holidays and can electric slide, his wrongdoings can be overlooked. The PBS program followed the campaigns of incumbent Mayor Sharpe James vs Stanford educated newcomer Cory Booker. Booker was clearly the best candidate for the job, but lost because James labeled Booker-a Democrat a pawn of the right wing Republican Party. This is the silliness that keeps unqualified officials in office and qualifed people away from the stink, not the measly $7-10 dollars payouts at election times.

On a sociological note, this is no fault of Sanders or Liddell, but why is sports the "way out of the ghetto"? Why does there have to be a way out and why is it always sports or entertaining? What about changing it for the better through education and being a productive citizen? Until we come to that realization senseless violence and a cycle of dependency on the government will continue. The story was about a basketball player with above average basketball skills from an impoverished area. A lot of kids who don't play the major high school sports of basketball, football, baseball, & etc. may not share the same ideas of athletics as their only way out. I'm sure most would tell you so, if only some reporter would do the story.

>who was the good point guard from lincoln that ended up at >kstate and when did he play? I am thinking last name >jackson? Your talking about 6'3inch Vincent"Action" Jackson. He was a 2-guard/sf and was the 1st player in the state to win 3 state championship. He hit the winning shot at the buzzer to beat Peoria Central for Lincoln's 3rd straight title. Tyrone Jackson went to K-State as a small forward.The point guard was a heady guy by the name of Rico Sylvester. He was the consumate point guard who always got others involved despite being a great shooter. He went on to SEMO. That team placed 5 starters into Division 1 programs Rico Sylvester-pg-SEMO Chris McKinney-sg-San Diego State Vincent Jackson-sg/sf-Kansas State by way of Moberly JC Counzo Martin-pf-Purdue Ronald "Tree" Harris-I forget what school, but he earned a Division 1 track scholarship after winning the shot put title as a senior.

>i would take laphonso ellis lincoln teams against those >ritter teams. besides ellis, i am thinking that there were >a couple of athletes on the team that ended up in the nfl as >well so they were loaded with pure skills and talent as >well. > >i am sure p diddy or even jalensdad can remember the >teamates, thinking there was victor scott and the big >marshall guy that got in trouble when in the nfl plus >phiffer kid that was a marvelous point guard. not sure why >he never did anything past high school. Victor Scott I believe was an outstanding football player at East St Louis Sr. Calvin Phiffer(Cincinnatti) was before Laphonso, he played on the 1982 State Champion Lincoln Team, which was Bennie Lewis' 1st championship. Some believe the 1982 team was Lewis' finest. The 1986-87 Lincoln team featured 3 Division 1 players in Laphonso Ellis(Notre Dame), James Harris(Temple), & Chris Rodgers(Creighton). Harris later went on to play in the NFL for the Raiders and the Rams. Harris was linked to some drug sting in St Louis but was later cleared. He never played a regular season game for the Rams.

I'm sure billiken roy and a few of our other illinois residents are feeling me on this one. take a trip to chicago sometime and look at some competitive basketball. Very well stated.

I just don't think we have the rebounding in the frontcourt to >allow them to do so. So we're back to having to make open >17-20 ft jumpers once the guards beat their man off the >dribble and kick it out, which makes me nervous. I'd prefer >that Tommie take it all the way to the basket and either >finish or draw the foul if he gets a step on his defender. >But it's a lot harder to finish against 6'9 240 lb men than >it is 18 year old boys. Being 6'6 will definitely help his >cause. Those are some good points, however I believe the team will be much stronger rebound-wise due in large part to better athleticism on the wings. Hopefully these guards will force the defense to stretch and get out of position for offensive put backs,and I gotta believe that Ian and Vashun will improve. Tommie has been finishing around 6'9 240 monsters while on the summer circuit. The NBPA comes to mind.

>Liddell was never leaking out on the fastbreak in high >school any way because he was the pg. My point exactly. He wasn't leaking out because he was too busy leading the team in rebounding. Who was East Side best open court player, unquestionably Tommie Liddell? This part of his game was wasted for the better part of 3 years. Why would he leak out on the fastbreak with athletes like Darian Luster, Demario Smith, and Mark Howlett. Take Howlett out as an athlete. He was very limited in that regard and if you took away his spot-up shooting, you took Howlett out the game. These great athletes you speak of should have been 1 & 2 in rebounding, yet they finished behind Liddell. If they were controlling the boards as they should have Liddell could have leaked out for easy baskets. The goal of basketball is to outscore the opposition. East Side was always in a dogfight because they didn't get anything easy, despite having superior athletes. People think because he's a great athlete that he wants to run the wing, but thats not how he plays. Obviously you did not see the game vs O'Fallon when he scored over 20 points with 5 dunks. He got those dunks by running the wing and finishing the break. He followed that up with another multiple dunk game vs Alton. It was no coincidence that Dennis Brooks missed those games with an ailment. He can play that way, but is better suited to run the offense get his teammates involved and take the scoring opportunities when they present themselves. Tommie is skilled enough to play an uptempo game or a half-court game. Anyone who has seen him play already knows this to be true.

Someone in an earlier post said Liddell was the best player on the floor last night. I disagree. He was clearly the best player on the local squad though. The best player on the court was Martellus "Cash Money" Bennett. I believe that was me who said Tommie was the best player on the floor. I said this because Bennett was not facing equal competition. Liddell was going against guys who were going on to play major college basketball. Who was Bennett, Thomas, Criswell, and Jackson facing that could make that claim? Don't say Kellerman who is going to Central Michigan as a spot-up shooter. So you see it was not a fair showcase to really judge the national bigs.

>I could see Liddell or Obi, leading the team in rebounding. >Liddell is so active and I'm sure Obi is a better athlete >than Ian. I would hope Tommie is not the team's leading rebounder. He led his high school in rebounding every year as a starter. This imo held down his scoring as he was not getting out on the break for easy opportunities, but surrounded by multiple defenders under the basket. After watching his improved offensive aggression and his improved strength and size, I think Tommie should score around 17-18ppg,4apg,5rpg, and 1bpg.

>Free throw attempts >Frew throws made >Assists >Rebounds >3 PT percentage >I think there's a little too much hype on Liddell. I wish >we would tame our expectations of him, but I see him leading >the team in scoring and shooting less than 40%. News flash, Liddell has never shot less than 45% in any season as a high schooler. The 45% happened during his sophmore year when he shot 45.4%. The following 2 years would see him shoot 51% and 52.1%. So where is this under 40% crap coming from. As far as lowering expectations, I would be on the side of raising them after his performance against the so-called National All-stars guards. Can anyone argue against that Liddell was not only the best player on the court at DJ's event, but he was heads and shoulders above any guard on the floor. 40%, you must be under the impression that Liddell's point came off dunks and put backs only.

These are my unofficial stats for Tommie. I mistakenly had him for only 31 points and 5 rebounds. Once I reviewed the game I realized I shortchanged him. 37 points 14/18 fgs 0/1 3ptfgs 9/9 fts 8 rebounds 8 assists 2 stls 2 blks 5 turnovers A very balanced game as he scored 15 1st half points and 22 2nd half points.

The fact is that before he went to prep school Tommie was not as good as Larry was coming in from his senior year. I can't give a fair comment as to who was better because I didn't see as much of Hughes, however I will say Tommie had as much talent as any local player in the last 25 years as a senior in high school. He was somewhat handicapped by an inexperience head coach, who really didn't get all the talent out of Tommie. It appears that the additional year has provided Tommie to get bigger and stronger and improve his game. That was the point I was trying to make. I have always said that Hargrave Military Academy was a godsend. It allowed him to develop mentally, physically, and most importantly academically. It was really tough hearing all the naysayers belittle Tommie for his academic shortcomings. I knew he was a much better student than he showed at East Side. Put in an environment where the scales were balanced I knew he would excel, this was borne out with a gpa above 3.0 and a SAT score above 900. Hargrave corrected 4 years of bad schooling in a 1 year span. The improvement in his game were negligible at best. If the game had been closer, I think Tommie's staline would have read around 23 points, 13 assists, and 8 rebounds. When the St Louis All-Stars fell behind, it forced Tommie to score more points.

Happy Father's Day to you senior. You have something truly special in your son Tommie. Can't wait to see him in Billiken Blue

What's up Deano, I wish I had some good news to relay,but it's hard to judge on these all-star games. Chester Frazier played under control and seems to sacrifice his offense for the team. I was not overly impressed with Charles Jackson. He and Deandre Thomas appeared to be the same type of player. Jackson should consider a red-shirt to get in better condition. I can't remember the kids from Peoria name, however he seems to possess a big time jumpshot.

For one, I thought the quality of play was down from previous years. There were some spectacular plays and standout performances, but I didn't come away that impressed. I never saw so many missed dunks. This is about the only thing we agree on. As for Liddell, many of you know I've been lukewarm on him, but he was silky smooth tonight. Still have my doubts about his passion and competitiveness, but he certainly is skilled at taking players off the dribble and finding the open man. Exactly what game were you watching. Tommie finished the game with 31 points and 5 assists. He finished the 1st half with only 10 points. Still have your doubts about his passion. He was the only player who could create his own offense. Took several guys to the cup and dunk on them and tried to throw it down on Illinois signee Charles Jackson with 10 seconds remaining. What else does Liddell have to do to meet your approval? He was aggressive for the whole game, grabbing rebounds in traffic, changing shots, and making steals. He was by far the best player on the court, sadly his team's big men were not up to the task

>So, basically what you are saying is that after I made my >post, Jalensdad, went and conversed with Liddell to see if >my post was accurate and then came on to the board to prove >me wrong. I wouldn't waste the time to conversed with Tommie on that statement simply due to the fact that the statement had no truth. As far as proving you wrong, I believe you are the one who needs to prove things. For the last time Tommie is my nephew by way of my sister. I was the one who convinced him and his dad that SLU was the best place for him to sign. I made this determination after reading a handwritten letter from Soderberg. he doesnt know of EVERY single school that was looking at >Liddell nor can he tell us if Liddell was tempted. Only >Liddell can. Jalensdad is going by what he was told and so >am I. Of course I don't know every single school that recruited him or showed interest in him, just the major programs such as UCLA, Kansas, and some east coast programs that his prep school coach did not name. There were programs who felt that his talents were better suited for their program and those programs had no qualms about making their feelings known to Coach Keatts at Hargrave. Was Tommie tempted? Who knows but going on the fact that he re-upped with SLU during the early signing period once again kind of tells me he wanted to come home and play. Don't be fooled by that internet report that he switched committments to UNLV. As I said this was a poorly conceived pr move to garner attention for the upcoming Reebok Big Time Event in Vegas. Liddell played well in Teaneck at the Addidas event but did not make the All-Tourney team. His coaches did not want to make the same mistake at Vegas. So to them having Tommie switching committments to Vegas made sense. The results were Tommie averaging 20ppg and making the All-Tourney Team. Why the need to make a name for Tommie at Vegas, well that is a long story. In DC Tommie played exceptionally well at the Charlie Weber Tourney. One of the sponsor of his AAU Team-Team Detroit is a scout for an NBA Team. This scout along with many others felt Liddell had definite NBA potential. After the performance there was some talk by some of Team Detroit coaches of Tommie making a push for the NBA. Which I thought was way out there. So V-Time, I don't need to rely on 2nd hand info. I really doubt my nephew would reveal anything to you. Tommie tends to play things close to the vest. The last time UW communicated with Tommie was during Tommie's jr year. Once he committed to SLU, the letters stopped.

>SLU was extremely lucky Tommie decided to come back. He was >very successful at the prep school level and had other major >D1's after him outside of UNLV. Romar even tried to steal >him when there were rumors that Martell Webster would turn >pro. I really don't know where you get your information, but there is no truth to the rumor that Romar was actively recruiting Liddell at UW. The only major program that actively expressed interest in Liddell was Kansas. Which by the way is the school I had hoped Liddell would attend while Roy Williams was there. Liddell and his father never waivered from SLU, even when the bogus report of Liddell switching committments from SLU to UNLV. I think SLU was lucky in the regard that his signing may have led to Lisch signing with SLU and possibly Maguire.

>I had no idea that TL was such a dunking machine. That's >great excitement for us ticket holders, but can he shoot the >3? Mid-range jumper? I know we've beat this to death, but >I've never seen him play. Tommie's mid-range game is probably his greatest asset. As far as his 3point shooting is concern at this point it's hard to say, he really didn't look for his offense at the prep school. From what I have seen over the years is that when Tommie elevates and shoots the three and takes the 3point shot within the offense his 3point shooting percentage is usually good. When he doesn't elevate or when he settles for the 3, his percentage usually drops. He has been paired with a very good coach in Soderberg. All of his flaws can be righted with this staff. I can't see this staff under-utilizing his talents as his high school coach. This comparison with Wade is kind of a stretch. Their similarities begins and ends with both being from Illinois and not being eligible as freshmen. Wade has always been a dominant scorer, whereas Tommie would much rather score around 17-19ppg with 8 rpg and about 5 apg.

Any word on Tommie? Tommie is back in town and has been scrimmaging with the team. According to his pops, Tommie has more than met the required score on his SAT's. He is awaiting final approval from the NCAA clearing house. This is probably due to Tommie scoring much better as a prep school student compared to his time at East St Louis Sr. He is a legit 6'6 and has put on some much needed muscle. From what I hear and I hope it is true, the coaching staff has decided to turn Tommie loose with the ball.

Maguire said SLU told him that they wouldn't recruit any more guards in his (junior) class. Coach Soderberg must think very highly of Maguire. These are the exact words he used in recruiting Liddell.

>FYI - Bullseye ranks him #36 in Illinois in their latest >issue. When it comes to southern Illinois hoops, Bullseye in my opinion leaves a lot to be desired. Case in point during Liddell's sr year they had a Danville High rated Top 15 and East Side rated in the lower 30s. They met in a holiday tourney and East Side promptly destroyed Danville by 30 points.I have not seen Maguire play but I know as a sophmore he put up 29 points in the regional finals vs a very athletic East Side team.

I think Africa offers the best hope rather than these European types. We need to get some sort of connection going in there. We need some agents on the ground in west africa, places like Nigeria, Cameroon. Anybody got any ideas? I think one may not have to travel as far as the East Coast as a lot of these kids are choosing the prep school route. Unlike most American kids, SLU could possibly sell the academic benefits of SLU as opposed to just selling the basketball program.